Realising the many varibles such as train length, consist,terrain etc. and knowing that most but not all 2-10-2s were concidered drag freight engines I’d still like to run my two GN.Class Q steamers at as close to prototypical speeds as possible. Thinking in our tiny world train length wouldn’t exceed 30 to 35…40 and/or 50 foot cars.
I have read that at anything over 30mph they were hard on track and crews alike and have untied some engineers boot laces.
Frankly would preferr not exceeding that speed as enjoyment to me is watching the beauty of siderods and valve gear in slow motion. 20 to 30 mph max.
Anyone else running 2-10-2’s have thoughts on the matter?
I am not sure but I believe the description of hard riding is appropriate only for the lighter class Q-2. A reason may be that these engines have been rebuilt from unsuccessful 4-8-2s. The Q-2 were intended to be used at drag speeds, but the Q-1 - the larger of the 2-10-2s - were to replace articulateds because these were too slow at that time.
I read something like that somewhere, but again - not sure.
My Santa Fe Cajon Pass layout depends heavily on 2-10-2s as helper and sometimes road engines. The largest ones, the 3800 class built from 1919 to 1926, had 63-inch drivers and were allowed a maximum speed of 55 mph in the timetables of the late 1940s. On my part of the railroad, however, their speeds would rarely exceed 20 to 25 mph, either because they were working hard up a 2.2-percent grade or because they were descending a 3 percent grade with air-brake retainers turned up. In that mountain setting, slow speeds are entirely appropriate.
East (by timetable, geographically north) of where I model the double tracks ran across the Mohave Desert to Barstow, and higher speeds were usual. Even so, veteran engineers have told me that 40 mph was a typical speed across the desert with the 3800s.
The older, smaller Santa Fe 2-10-2s, the 900 and 1600 classes that gave this type its name, had 57-inch drivers and were allowed only 35 mph in the timetable. Not many engineers wanted to run them even that fast because they could be very rough riders.
Ragnar, I agree with you. The GN’s Q’s were pretty much drag freight locos. From my research, 30 mph running light and 35 pulling a train was the norm. Remember that the Q-1s were built in 1923-24, right around the same time as the P-2s. This was an era well before modern cross-counterbalancing. For whatever reason, the GN didn’t seem too interested in rebuilding the Qs either. Likely was the fact that they had largely been superseded by the R class in extremely heavy service. Another reason was GN’s corporate philosophy: “Maximum ton-miles, minimum train miles” which sort of biased the GN away from speedy freight trains. Another, quite important reason would be the advent of the magnificent O-8 class-which could pull almost the same tonnage as the older Qs, and at much greater speed and efficeincy. Even on the Mesabi Range, Any freight work requiring speed was placed in the hands of the superlative N-2 (N-3 after 1942) class of 2-8-8-0s. So, from what I’ve seen, the Qs were kept around to move tonnage, but not anything really needing speed. By the way, I also have one: Q-1 GN 2112. Not modernised, (it’s the Tenshodo model) but I like it.
I’m a big fan of the 2-10-2 wheel arrangement, and I have several working on my Yuba River Sub. (2 Rio Grande F-81’s and a ‘borrowed’ C&S 900) I use them for drag freight (mainly coal) and I run them SLOOOWWWW. Usually about 25-30 miles an hour tops. On the actual Rio Grande, they were used mainly in Utah to work coal trains over Soldier Summit, and because their range was relatively short, a lot of them kept their original ‘shorty’ Vanderbuilt coal tenders, which look rather ‘quaint’ behind that long-boilered loco.
Out here in California, Southern Pacific used their 2-10-2’s as main motive power on the steeply graded Siskiyou line between Weed, CA and Grant’s Pass OR, where the grade approached 3.5% over Siskiyou Summit. They were also used as helpers on the short but steep 2.2% grade over Cuesta on the Coast Line, and did yeoman service in the Tehachapi’s. However, the SP “Decks” as they were called by engineers, seemed to be fairly well balanced, and you could also see them pulling freights in the level Central Valley of California. You might see them occasioinally on the Donner Pass route, but usually as helpers between Truckee and Norden. Good, slow and versatile motive power. Handsome devils, too.