I was wondering about something…I always hear about a train going into emergency for whatever reason(potential crash,pedrestrian,etc)…Once a train goies into emergency,how long does it take before it can move again? Also,when the engineer puts the train into emergency,can he take him/herself out of emergency and resume traveling as normal?[?]
Cway
It depends on the length of the train. Once all the air is exhausted from the train line at the engine (or break in the train line) the brake valve in each car opens the line from the emergency reservoir (the “air tank” under each car that looks like it has a flange in the middle is actually two tanks bolted together, a service and an emergency reservoir). Once the train is stopped the engineer can recharge the train line and all the reservoirs on the train and be on his way again but the length of time to recharge the train is dependent on its lenth, and can be extensive.
That depends on the type of emergency break application. One emergency application is for grade crossing accdent we engineers are trained not to put train in emergency until the accdent happens, when the train is placed in emergency after such I can recover from emergency but can not move train until company offical has arrived at the place of accdent and the train is inspected to see if train is on the rail, then it can be moved with authorization of the offical, emergency service providers and dispatcher. The next emergency application happans when in dynamic break and the train is bunched up and their is a low hanging air hose that clips a crossing causing the air hose to come appart this most often happens with auto racks because their is a lot of slack involved with auto racks. The other type of emergency application is when I set air and the next thing I know I am in emergency because of what we call a kicker, the car will just dump the air, if the car can be found we set it out but good luck in finding the car. In all the above but the low hanging air hose and the train is below 30 mph the train must be inspected.
Rodney
If the engr or condr puts the train into emergency or there is a UDE, it will take a few minutes to recover. Around 50 seconds for the PCS to reset after the auto brake valve is reset and whatever time it takes for the train to recharge. Note on our RR there are some rules that apply once a train has gone into emergency. Warn all approaching trains. If over 5,000 tons and emergency occured at over 30mph and the air is being restored on the rear car the train may proceed. If under 5,000 tons and air is being restored…proceed. If over 5,000 tons and under 30mph, a walking inspection must be made. A walking inspection must also be made if unsual slack action was experienced or excessive power is required to move the train. This is from memory and probably isn’t verbatim.
You’ve got the right idea, Ironken–if a train goes into emergency, and you don’t know what caused it, you don’t want nearby trains running into the possible wreckage on adjacent tracks. However, if the emergency application was due to a catastrophe, I’m sure the air isn’t going to come back up.
Ironic, isn’t it–an emergency application is one of the fastest-moving things about a railroad. Because it depends on air pressure, and the serial application feature causes the next car’s brakes to apply, an emergency application moves through the trainline at darn near Mach 1! Truly an amazing–and scary–thing to hear when said train is moving past you.
Pardon me if the caliber of this question is more in line with the “stupid question” site, but I’ve wondered about something for years:
In movies and TV, when someone pulls an emergency brake on a passenger train, it’s often a metaphor for chaos. The loco’s wheels lock, inertia throws everyone ahead and scatters luggage, etc. I guess the scene most people are familiar with is from SOME LIKE IT HOT on the Flordia-bound train with the girls’ band. But I also see a milder form of aggravation at work: sometimes in TV or movie fiction when brake is pulled, people brace themselves against sleeping-car rooms, the conductor starts checking to see if people are ok, that kind of thing.
Naturally, I’m not going to pull the handle on a real train just to satisfy my curiosity. But when someone like a passenger pulls the emergency lever, is it really as catastrophic as movie comedies make it seem?? I’m assuming nothing else extraneous is at work–no impending crash or derailment, just a stupid use of the emergency function.
It could be, especially if the train is moving fairly slowly to begin with. Pulling that lever (or turning that valve, or whatever) will definitely put the train into emergency. I was on a scoot once where the conductor used it to stop the train right after it started, when he saw something amiss–I had to grab a post in the vestibule quickly to stay upright. At higher speeds, the stop won’t be as sudden, and with passenger equipment the slack action won’t be as severe. But you still don’t want to try this!
I forgot to add to my above posting when I the engineer puts the train in energency we must also dump the etd also so the rear does not run in.
Rodney
I have been on a Passenger Train that went into Emergency at 10 mph and believe me it you are standing up it can throw you on the ground.[:(!] Yes Hollyweird takes a lot of liberties with trains and how they operate.[:)]
yea…supost to…but when your hands are doing 20 differnt things in 20 seconds…that little toggle switch gets overlooked…i know i forget about it all the time…
csx engineer
You got that right csx I forget also.
Rodney
All true!
However, in regards to the hollywood overdramatization of the effects of a passenger-induced emergency application: in the “old” days, passenger equipment frequently used cast-iron brake shoes. Those shoes would stop a train considerably faster than the composition shoes used today. In addition, many railroads ran passenger trains with 110psi on the brake pipe. So with 110 on the BP, and cast-iron shoes, you could generate sufficient negative g-forces to have a serious effect on the passengers. Which is one of the reasons why railroads do not use that setup anymore. The other reason is that a bad engineer (or a good engineer in a bad situation) could easily put serious flat spots on the entire train. But if used correctly, the combination would bring a train to a very (relatively) quick stop. Don’t forget, back then trains ran over 100mph at times.
Just a question regarding the charging of air, how long does it take to recharge the air by putting the reverser into idle, shutting off your generator field, and notching up to (4 is the allowed limit I believe)?
After 50 seconds we can recover from emergency by moving the automatic break valve to release with the reverser centered. We do not put the throttle in notch 4 to charge the train by rule that is concidered revering. As for time it take to charge the train that depends on how long the train is and the ambient air temp because on a cold day the air will not flow very good.
Rodney
A couple of miscellaneous comments…
The reason for a required train inspection after an emergency brake application is that is all too easy for one or more cars – usually somewhere in the middle – to derail due to slack action, and it may not be obvious on a casual look-see. This is particularly true if part of the train is on a curve, or in a sag. While using the ETD to set the brakes from the tail helps a lot, as csx notes, who has time to do that every time?
The possibility of derailment is also the main reason why an emergency application – as opposed to a full service application – is not really desirable in the grade-crossing scenario. First place, the emergency application probably won’t stop you before you hit the vehicle anyway, and second place the mid-train derailment, if it happens, may convert a grade crossing accident into a major disaster.
Question:
If I’m coming at a crossing at 100 mph in my steam locomotive with 80" drivers, and as I round the bend I see a tanker truck parked on the crossing, I don’t care what anybody says–that 6ET brake lever is getting shoved to the right (engineer to conductor, hold on).
I would assume that railroaders in a similar situation would do the same thing.
But, what about putting the locomotive in reverse? I admit that flat spots are not a good thing, but people, it’s a lot cheaper to re-lathe wheels than it is to buy a new locomotive after a fireball destroyed the last one. Why don’t you put the locomotive in reverse?
Stupid question.
Sincerely,
Daniel Parks
You really dont have time to put the thing in reverse. If you did actually do it… well… hold on and hope the train does not bunch up on your drawbar too fast. That tiny engine you are driving trying to throw it’s weight against a train that is much more mass and momentum is really not worth the effort.
If you are mentally at the moment where it is necessary to blow the train and toss the anchor… chances are the sandglass is running out the last few seconds prior to the smash. (If there is going to be one) there is no time for much else.
I dont have any train experience but in trucking if you use all your air in a emergency stop it will take you a moment to gather wits, chew out the offending problem and get going again assuming you did not make contact with anything. (As long as you did not sustain damage during the stop)
Because it won’t stop you any faster and it might damage the engine where you won’t be able to move after the incident. What’s keeping you moving is the momentum of the 5000 tons behind you
Dave H.
So no going into emergency with a steam engine, moving fast?
At risk of expressing my ignorance at such a tender age I have to say that going into emergency with a steam engine is just the same back then as it is with desiels today.
I think Antonio was on a excursion some time ago when his steam engine got away while the passenger cars went into emergency.
Without exploring deeper impact such as water mass surging forward in the steam boiler and associated “Lag” in response time shifting from forward to reverse and then developing the situation… I simply dont see the time that is needed to go thru all of that.
I still stand by my position that you are going to have a very short amount of time to assess the situation, make one or two decisions and act. The rest is simply a matter of distance, braking power and is there enough time to stop before the smash.
The best way to drive is not have to go into emergency in the first instance =)