In my view the systems died due to political reasons and not the technology itself. Many studies have shown that streetcars have a lower operating cost compared to buses. In my view people focus far too much on the plot itself rather than analyzing the origin which was in my view the politics of the time. As for the companies well they are the epitome of corporate welfare and are beneficiaries of government in the form of central banking monopolies and World Wars. In my view the automobile is a tool of the elites as way of controlling the population.
I’m calling you on this: cite 'em.
Everything I have seen indicates enormous stranded cost, difficulty of street repairs, two-man rather than single-man crew for the great majority of examples – etc. Don’t forget the vastly lower operating speed most streetcars operated under. Not to mention the awful noise, having to cross the traffic to get on the car, and the danger (slippery rails, blocked street_ to other road traffic. We laugh now at the old Keystone-Kops-type movies where the automobile comes out wobbling after going between two streetcars. Not so funny if it happens to you…
… and all this before you address the does-not-go-anywhere, non-reroutable nature of streetcars. Some very fancy devices had to be used to take the cars over, say, firehoses or damage in the street, but even so, any blockage or failure usually meant sitting there until something came out to pull you. And everyone else behind waiting.
Remember that we are not comparing costs with steam railroads, we are comparing with buses. About the only way you could ‘compare’ the bus costs is by ignoring the entire infrastructure cost, and assuming that the power to run the things comes cheaply from the grid (perhaps possible, in the days when Insull et al. were building the grid largely, nominally, to supply electric-railroad power) – yielding the same sort of ‘economics’ that purport that BEVs have a ‘lower energy cost’ than liquid-fueled cars. Lower net of what?
Bring on the studies!
RME
Modern streetcars, starting with the PCC of 1935, pioneering resilient wheels, are all quieter than buses, and any transportation nosie control textbook will tell you so. This is assuming both are in good repair, smooth road surface, welded rail, well maintained equipment for both modes.
Why two men on a streetcar? That went out when SF finally got permission for one man on PCC’s. Two-caar trains perhaps, especially wihout interconnecting doors.
APTA has operating costs per passenger mile on many systems on their website. My inspection indicated that operating costs on 1/2-2/3 of bus for all rail. One reason is that streetcars, artics compaired wih artics, double trucks compared with 4-wheel bus, carry more passengers for a single crew member/ But the big saving is in maintenance expenses. Power vs fuel varies but are rooghlly comparable. Maintenancd, about 1/3 of that of buses for each vehicle mile, and the streetcar carreis more passengers. Part of that saving goes of course to maintaining track and wire, but the overall saving is still there. The big cost in the much greater capital cost for streetcars. That is why 20,000 passengers past a given point is the breakpoint, or about 60,000-70,000 per day,
Overmod:
“Not to mention the awful noise…”
But I loved the “noise.” Admittedly, the noise when the tracks were in pavement downtown was downright deafening, but the modern method of isolating the track from the pavement with rubber cushioning really cuts down the noise.
But riding the streetcar in the days of two-man operation was a symphony. The grinding of the motors and wheels with the occasional loud "POW!!!" accompanied by a flash of lightning from under the car. The “tuk,tuk,tuk,tuk” when the air compressor cycled on. As passengers boarded there was a “jing” for each cash fare or a “jang” for each transfer. When ready to start, the conductor would signal “dink,dink.” To have the motorman stop at the next stop, it was “dink.” If a car pulled into the path of the streetcar, the motorman would stop with “tsh, tsh, tsh” from the air brakes and stomp on the floor button with a “bong, bong, bong” which the car driver would ignore. There was one more bell that I never quite understood. Strapped to the control stand was a cowbell; the only time I can remember hearing it was late at night if the motorman really opened her up on a rough stretch of track, and the car started swaying violently from side to side. I always wondered if the purpose of this bell was to act as a “high-tech” warning to take it easy.
My own experience in New Orleans is that on straight track street cars are quiet. So quiet you need to be aware of them and not stand too close to the track. No doubt that is the reason for the bells.
On board you can here the air pump working but that is about all.
We lost most of the bells with one-man operation and exact-fare.
It’s long been a pet peeve of mine that for years NOPSI (electricity,gas and transit) had been pressuring the city to allow one-man operation, but the city always refused. Electric and gas rates subsidized transit, and NOPSI said they were losing too much. They then tried to get them to let them convert all lines to buses. (There were only two car lines left at that time.) The city let them convert the Canal St. line in 1964 but made them keep the St. Charles. What bugs me is that several years later, when the city took over transit operations, one of the first things they did was convert to one-man operation. I would have preferred one-man operation to losing a line altogether.
Yes, I loved the noise, and still do. One of my most prized pieces of nostalgia is a cassette tape, recorded on one of the old Advent 201s (with the funny single meter) using a car battery and inverter to run it, of a trip on MP54s
An interesting and ironic historical note especially in light of the fact that street cars again run on the Canal Street line.
But New York elevated trains are not street cars.
No, but they’re noisy as hell. And so are typical streetcars in their ‘waning’ years.
Modern LRVs can be quiet, and get around most if not all the environmental objections of nearby property owners. Remains to be seen how they’d perform after a few years with no subsidy, however…
Well Bob, I hope you never have to live near a street car line. Or an elevated train.
John
A little technical difficulty. I think this is the perfect vehicle for promoting transit programs. Took this photo in Helsinki, Finland last May. I understand you can charter this flange wheeled pub and cruise about the tram system while viewing the world through the ultimate beer goggles!
Well maintiained modern streetcars are less noisy than buses. This definitely includes the 50 and 60 year old PVV cars running oon Market St annd the Embarcadaro in SF and the cars on Gerrad (Route 15) in Phila delphia.
The key words are ‘well maintained.’
We have container trains that go through town with little more noise than quiet streetcars. And then we have some like the chorus from Il Trovatore on methamphetamine.
My experience is that quiet cars tend to start making noise fairly quickly unless the wheel lathe is a popular tool at the barn… granted, it’s not the world-ending noise of a penniless operation, but it’s there.
I do not want to imply that buses are quieter alternatives than streetcars! Only that the road noise is often less courtesy of the rubber tires. Slamming and banging, broken shocks or worse in the suspension, and that awful rasping death rattle from undermaintained 6-71s are – often – just as irritating as the six bucks of bolts in a barrel.
Bus noise, data from mesurement and you can get my own measured data by contacting me at
daveklepper@yahoo
is negine noise, not road noise. This is not true of modern automobiles. Some motorcycles (delibertely) out deciBell them all, though. Also, some trucks.
Do you have data for the latest generations of hybrid buses, too? (And inside noise levels and power spectra)?
Glad you’ve measured it critically. That is the kind of action we need.
I can appreciate the fact that proper regular maintenance is important. Very important. But with similar sized vehicles (such as street cars and buses) if we are looking at noise it is hard for me to believe that rubber tired vehicles will be more noisy than steel wheeled vehicles. Did you ever ride the subway in Montreal or Paris?
Yes. Yes I have.
The point is that the Metros don’t have engines. Bus engines can be loud, rasping, annoying at considerable distance as the sounds are often distinctive. That is what Dave was talking about.
I look at it from the perspective of a bus rider. I’ve been bounced and jerked around a lot on buses but inside the bus I cannot recall noise being a problem. But your point, about noise for a person who lives on the street where a bus goes by, is certainly valid.
Speaking of noise, the electric trolley buses that replaced many of the streetcar lines were so quiet, the loudest noise you heard sometimes was the “tick, tick, tick” of a pebble caught in the tire tread.