My wife and I just returned from the Greenberg show in Virginia Beach. A couple of really nice looking layouts and maybe 30 or so vendors. I’m certain that Greenberg charges for the areas that the vendors occupy so why do the vendors price everything at or above list? If I were a vendor and had to pay to occupy the space I would rather sell a lot of merchandise are a reduced price (still producing a profit of course) than display a lot of merchandise that no one purchases.
I was told by a vendor at a Gadsden Pacific Operating Toy Train Museum swap meet in Tucson, Arizona last month that the Great Train Expo, a branch of Greenberg, I believe, charges $75 for a table. He said he would attend no more shows because he wasn’t selling enough to pay for the table rental.
On top of the $7 admission fee into the train show itself, there is a $5 parking fee and $7 admission fee to get into the Pima County Fairgrounds where the shows are held.
I’ll certainly be attending no more shows in Tucson. Parking and fairgrounds admission were free until the county board of supervisors started looking for a way to raise money.
I agree Having to pay $12 extra is outrageous. If there were charges like that here I wouldn’t go either. It is really short sighted, because once they kill the show through higher charges they won’t even get the rent from the train show.
Enjoy
Paul
I was there too, I got a collection of NS/TTX/AMTK equipment. Maybe people display to show off their collection, but their collection is so valuble that they can’t stand losing a piece of it. People may be entering a train collecting hobby and want information, or display owners may want to say “Hey, this is my collection and pride, and I want to brag about it.”
I think you’ll pretty much find the same thing at every large train show with the only exception that I know of is Timonium Md. I have gotten some great deals from some of the big name vendors like Scenic Express, Greenway, NJI just to name a few. Dealing with vendors is not typically like dealing with the hobbyist or small time weekend train guy selling you can do a little horse trading with the small guy but the dealers usually don’t budge off the price. I went to Allentown today and it was absolutely no different then going to a Greenburg show. All the larger or more well known vendors that were there were selling for exactly the same price as on the net or in the stores. The key is no sales tax “allegedly” and no shipping or waiting you’ve got it in hand when you walk out the door. I guess thats a positive way of looking at it.
I found them to be the same out here… in fact the last one I went to was in Greensburg, PA. It was over priced and very crowded. I go to a show that they have twice a year at a local fire hall. There are just regular people there selling things. You can get some real good deals, too. I got an almost mint condition Athearn blue box FM Trainmaster - PRR, for like $20 there. Runs great, too!
Lets not be too tough on these train shows. With the demise of so many hobby/trains stores during the last decade, we need all shows to promote the hobby. The internet and ebay has taken the lion’s share of the model railroad dollar, but mostly to folks who know what they are buying. Newbies??? They must physically see and touch the item.
HZ
Howard - it is not only newbies, who want to see and maybe touch what they are buying! Before I loosen up those 500 - 800 $ for a premium brand loco, be sure, I´d like to see it.
Would you buy a car before looking at it and taking it for a test drive?
As long as it wasn’t a Toyota
I know that we had the same situation here as well about a decade ago. The vendors had no specials or discounts, all sold at retail with the result that they hardly sold anything. The effect of that was that fewer and fewer vendors wanted to attend as they didn´t make any money!?!
I was then hired by one of the vendors to do some Airbrush-demos for his company at a show. As I knew him from before, I told him to take the opportunity to clear out his shelf-warmers at the show (something that he had complained about earlier). He did so and even had some discount on the regular stuff as well.
The result? He sold almost ALL of the old inventory and much of the regular stuff and made a real good profit on the Show. The competition DID NOT like it! Now the other vendors discount their stuff as well to be able to compete as more and more sellers do it (well, what do you know?..) .
Everyone wins in this situation, the organizers get lots of paying customers and the Vendors in return sell a lot and makes profits and the vendors that sell stuff no one wants don´t come back as they dont earn anything, wich pleases the visitors as they like to see interesting items on display.
Graffen,
You are correct, demos like what you describe make a diiference not only in sales, but improving the entire show. At Timonium from time to time we do have vendors do clinics on their products and report impressive sales figures. And yes, I have seen other vendors react either with similar activities or by lowering their prices to compete. We also encourage this by offering free space to vendors who do clinics and often pay them a stipend depending on the value of the clinic to the show vs. their own products.
Decades back I owned a hobby shop and had stacks of red and black plaid boxes of Campbell structures that were not moving. We then advertised and held hands on clinics on how to build a Campbell wood structure in addition to having many expertly built Campbell structures on display. In a few months, we could not oder enough to keep up with the newly created demand for these kits.
I only hope more train show vendors read this thread. Each show at Timonium MD (the ones without 3 feet of snow) attracts on the average of 400 new attendees who are either new to the show or to the hobby. Seeing rows of similar ready to run Chinese made plastic all for the same price is indeed interesting, but the vendor who is demonstrating what his or her product can or will do is another story. This is what attracts folks to the hobby in addition to the wonderful operating layouts.
HZ
Back in the 80s we used to live in a row house in Brooklyn Park (right outside of Baltimore) and my wife and I love going to the Timonium train shows! Between the train shows and open houses at local model railroad clubs and the occasional trips up to the Strasburg or Horseshoe Curve, it seemed like we had something railroad related to do every weekend.
-George
Hey, just had to put in my two cents,
I went to the Greenburg Train show in Valley Forge, PA just a couple weeks ago, and found SEVERAL tables (yes Tables) where there were great deals… I can’t speak for the rest of the show, in other cities, but I wish I’d had more hobby budget, cause I woulda had a bunch of things. Also, it was free parking… but the standard $7 admission fee…
Marketing (and that includes pricing that both moves the goods and results in profit) is a mix of art and science and the model train world can be harsh on those who get it wrong in either direction. The hobby shop that offered the best deals and the hugest inventory of obscure detail parts is the hobby shop that closed first around here. The guy who sells at full list price with no discount (even for damaged stuff his cat has attended to!) is the guy everybody hates and … the guy who somehow survives.
I suspect it is also tough for people selling factory fresh inventory to have attractive looking prices if the same show is also a swap meet with people selling off estates and the like. In your mind you know a Blue Box GP35 should not be compared to a new DCC ready unit but I think it has an effect.
That is one reason why Milwaukee’s Trainfest does not allow swap meet sellers even if they want to pay for the table. It is billed as “not a swap meet” and that is the way it is run. There are plenty of swap meets to go to anyway. Speaking of Trainfest which I work at as a volunteer, one thing most people do not realize is how horridly expensive it can be to run a train show. Everything from bathroom doors being unlocked, to light banks being on, to electric plugs being energized, is a charge!
When Trainfest’s host started to charge for parking people predicted disaster. Instead, record attendance. This year Trainfest raised prices and people predicted disaster. It was another excellent year, although I suspect the ticket pricing might be tweaked to keep the youth attendance high. I am not saying people will come to a train show regardless of cost. If the overall experience is a good one with a nice mix of vendors and layouts and clinics and displays and manufacturers, people will pay if they can be con
Lemme guess. A GM man? [:)]
I have been attending trains shows (St. Louis, MO area) for a number of years. The only time I ever got a ‘bargain’ price was at the National Convention & show held in St. Louis about 7 or 8 years ago.
I keep hearing stories of people finding outstanding bargains at trains shows. I haven’t seen it in my area. Of the vendors who are displaying used merchandise, none of them have ever been willing to dicker on pricing. It’s priced as marked.
I have bought items at the shows. Something that catches my eye or that I’ve wanted for some time and finally have the extra cash for it. One time, I wanted some O gauge track for a display of some old Lionel items I had. Found a seller who had 3’ lengths of flex track and was discounting them for $5.00 each. I was a happy camper. Even thought about buying more just because the price was so good, but I restrained myself! LOL
The local shows, usually GATS or whoever has taken over for them, charge $7 admission but parking is free. I’ve passed up the last several shows, mainly because I don’t need to spend the money and partly because there’s no one to go with me. My grandkids are either too old and not interested or interested but too young.
I attended the Virginia Beach show Saturday morning and was pleased. I did spend some money and am pleased with my purchases. I was not able to find all I was looking for but I did okay.
The important thing is that I enjoyed myself. saw some friends, and bought some trains stuff I needed. Granted there were some vendors that were as high as my LHS and Walthers. Some of the prices were higher than the current online prices. The selection was a lot better than my LHS and rather than ordering and waiting I could touch it, and read the box. Then if I wanted it I could take it home with me.
The buyer beware and be prepared. Have an idea of what you want, and how much you want to spend. I went with a budget and spent less. Would have spent more but I couldn’t find what I wanted. Until next time.
I may take a trip to Baltimore for the next show. I haven’t seen the railroad museum since it was repaired after the roof fell in.
Not necessarily just not one of those" things" staying on topic I have a friend who sells at a lot of the shows including the Greenburg shows and he’s very fair n his pricing at the shows as he is on his internet site but he always tells me it getting tougher and tougher to make a buck doing this. I believe him 100% having been a small business owner in the past and doing it on the side now everyone and his brother always tell you how you should run your business or how they would do it better and of course how much money you must be making because you own your own business well the grass is always greener over the septic tank as the saying goes.If you break it down with all the expense involved not to mention their time and their weekends away from their families etc. these guys aren’t making the land office profits we may think they are. Of course as consumers we want to get it cheaper it just human nature but for me it’s the hunt thats the fun part of any train show. Granted the deals aren’t jumping off the tables like we would hope but when you do find that big score it makes it all worth while. Heck I was happy as a pig in mud when I found a guy selling metal wheel sets at Timonium for a very reasonable price. I bought everything he had left. I also got a killer deal on freight cars from one of the clubs there that same year. hows 5 cents per car for a deal. I purchased $20 worth of cars you do the math. Do you find great deals like this every single time I suspect not but if you don’t go it’s guaranteed no one is going to ring your doorbell offering you a super deal on any model railroading stuff.
Our Greenberg shows here in eastern Massachusetts are held at the Shriners’ Auditorium in Wilmington. They’re conveniently-located, and the parking is free and plentiful. The Shriners run the food concession, and I assume they put the profits to good use supporting hospitals and such, so I make sure to support them and stuff my face at the same time. The next show is March 27-28.
We see a lot of Lionel, S-scale and tinplate at this show. But, it’s a big show, so there’s also plenty of HO and N, in addition to the inevitable tables selling dollhouse stuff and Power Rangers. There are a number of tables with used rolling stock, mostly low quality.
Once in a while I’ll find a bargain, or something that’s out of production like the IHC Mikado I picked up last fall. Mostly, though, I’m happy to look at the layouts and pick up a few detail parts. The admission is a small price for an afternoon’s entertainment.