So we are breaking ground on a new shop. And I’m looking to build our(my dad and I’s) final layout. We have had three garage layouts up to this point and now we are looking at a 40’x60’ shop. I’ve got a layout designed and ready to go.
Unfortunatley we are done with Atlas. Our last three have used Atlas as well as Peco switches and we are just done. Unreliable and for the price it’s just not worth it. So we have decided to hand lay all the track. We are going for the best possible reliability we can get from track. And with 80+ switches we aren’t going to mess with any of the pre-produced China switches. I’ve been working on Fast Track switches and overall am happy with how they are coming together.
My inexperience comes in the straight track. As much as I’d like to just use flex track…we aren’t going to. And for just plain straight pieces…I’ve got that figured out. But can someone give me some insight on doing say a slight “S” curve? I can’t really wrap my head around how you keep everything lined up and make it as easy and quick (hahaha) as possible? Maybe quick isn’t the word. Efficient?
Just hoping to get some pointers from some of you guys that have done it before. I know we have quite an undertaking but in the end I think it will be worth it.
While I’m well aware of what Fast Tracks offers, I’ve not used them, although I have scratchbuilt custom turnouts in the past to suit my needs.
I am, however, puzzled by your decision to handlay track, when there are so many good options where flex track is concerned.
At one time, handlaid track was considered to be more realistic, but in most cases, the lack of detail (at least in my opinion) was not all that impressive - no tieplates, and with track spikes, often oversize, on only every 5th or 6th tie…labour intensive and not really convincing at all, as far as details are concerned.
If you don’t want to use flextrack, I’d suggest that Central Valley’s tie strips might be a better option that the old-fashioned method of doing handlaid track. It offers tie plates and spikes on every tie, and you can cement the 1’ lengths into whatever length you feel that the two of you together can handle.
I limited most of mine to about 15’, but I was working solo and on stepstools, and longer lengths would have been harder to handle.
Here’s a photo of the tiestrip material with rail and ballast added…
Central Valley also offers tiestrip for turnouts, in various sizes and curveable ones, too…perhaps not all that attractive if you’ve already invested in FastTracks, though.
You definitely have me thinking now. We never really had any issues with the track itself. It was always the switches. And your point of just the track detail…or lack there of if we don’t use flex track is huge.
I will check out Central Valleys tie strips. That might be a good middle ground for us. Thank you for your info and recommendations!
It may have been John Armstrong who discussed using a straight section the length of the longest wheel base rolling stock in S-curves. But keep in mind the context of his discussion where “conventional curves” were 24 inches and “broad” curves 30 inches. Just a guess on my part, but when you get into the lower range of curve radii, that straight section may become more and more critical.
OTOH, if you are using broader radii, then that straight section may become increasingly less important. I have a section on my (under construction) layout in staging where I have 6 tracks in a large S-curve. The radii are generally 36 inches or greater. I did draft in center-lines in effort to stick with John Armstrongs recommendation of straight section of longest wheel-base cars and easements are used throughout. In some cases there aren’t really much in the way of solid straight sections when all is blended together but I tested a long passenger train of 85’ cars through it and everything operated smoothly.
But I do always try to stick with John Armstrongs best practices to minimize any chances of running issues.
There is no way I would go with hand laid track with the quality of the model railroad track available today, including turnouts. A waste of time and asking for problems. I hand laid all my track and made my turnouts when I was a teenager because there wasn’t any flex track in the early 1950s. I guess I did OK because everything work fine, it was a small around the room shelf layout with only four Mel made turnouts and a lift up bridge at the doorway.
I have both Atlas code 100 and code 83 turnouts as well as Peco curved turnouts on my current layout and I have never had any problems with either. I used Atlas code 100 flex and turnouts on two previous layouts and never had any problems.
As long as manufactured turnouts are installed correctly and use a good switch machine they work perfect, many of my Atlas turnouts on my current layout are well over 25 yrs old and working perfect. I have had to replace three that were installed in 1990 that became slightly irregular do to massive use; they just wore out after 25 yrs of heavy use.
The only turnout problem I’ve had in my 69 year HO model railroading career is a double crossover, I couldn’t get a manufactured code 83 double crossover turnout that would pass my Rivarossi articulated large flange wheels without a problem, the fix was a Mel made double crossover using Atlas Custom Line #6 turnouts and Atlas 19° crossover. Even the Fast track double crossover wouldn’t pass my Rivarossis without problems. The custom double crossover made from Atlas turnouts has worked flawlessly since the first day it was installed.
My path includes building a lot of stuff, but as I now begin my third large layout, I reserve my track scratch building skills for special trackwork only.
The OP says he is done with Atlas and PECO turnouts? That is an experiance I cannot relate to? They work just fine for me, and lots of my friends.
I started in this hobby with TruScale track, much of it in kit form. I learned how to hand lay track and build turnouts by age 15.
But I have no plan to lay 1500’ of track by hand or build 120 turnouts.
I build more of my electronics from “scratch” than most these days, I don’t hear any great outcry to move modelers in that direction.
I have no real advice for the OP in todays RTR world…
I use Shinohara turnouts (switches) exclusively. Most of the model railroaders I know use Peco. None of us have any problems that would make us consider handlaying our own.
Well here’s my deal and why I’m going with non RTR switches. I’ve got some time. They are just breaking ground on the shop and with most of all my stuff boxed up for the move in 6 months I need something to keep me busy. So doing the switches myself will help my mental sanity with work and all.
And I’m with a lot of you guys. We have run Atlas for years. My dads first layout 45 years ago and mine growing up. No issues. But the last three layouts we have done in my garage here have used “Newer” Atlas…and the quality is just crap. Hinge points and things are weak, and wobbley rails in the switch. Making my own turnouts will cost me about $20 per turnout and I have more options. We are running #12 switches on almost the entire layout so finding those RTR are next to impossible. I know Atlas are the cheapest at $18 ish a turnout. But the next step up is Peco which runs roughly $26-$28. For that I’d rather build turnouts since I have the time.
I think that I have been talked out of hand laying all the straight and curves. There’s just going to be too much track and I’d like to have my dad run on the layout before he’s 100.(He’s 75 now…LOL) So I think I will go with Peco flex track for the straights.
But I’m still soured on Atlas. From crap switches right out of the box to just not being able to run consistenly on them we are looking at other options. Granted I could have tried to contact Atlas for replacements but I don’t feel I should have to do that on a brand new turnout. Let alone 4 of them.
I understand this completely; I spent the last three years working on my new freight car fleet to keep my sanity while my layout room was under construction.
FWIW, Walthers plans on offering #10 turnouts and should be availalbe in a month or two.
The only Atlas turnouts I recall having wobbly rails were a few of the older code 100 #6, probably because the rivets were loose. Atlas has offered 2 kinds of code 83 turnouts, 1) Custom Line and 2) Super Track. I have both kinds and those seem fine. I’ve decided to switch mostly to Peco because I like the finger flick feature Atlas do not have so Atlas requires a ground throw or switch machine at extra cost and installation.
I started with the Atlas code 83 Super track #6 turnouts in the late 1990’s and noticed the plastic didn’t fill quite all of the mold, so there were small gaps where there should have been plastic in some. Nothing that should cause issues for running but a quality issue I noticed. I still have a gaggle of Atlas code 83 turnouts I’ll probably use for industrial sidings but plan on using all Peco in staging (code 100) and main line and yard (code 83) except a couple of Walthers or Shinohara #8 curved.
Atlas code 100 prices are now about the same as what Peco code 100 are now, so it seems like a no brainer to go with Peco for my staging yard. I sold off all my
I have one DCC friendly Walthers/Shinohara #10 turnout. I have no idea where I will ever use it. The #10s are big. The difference between a #8 and a #10 seems bigger than the difference between a #6 and a #8.
Longer LOL. I bought #8 turnouts for cross overs and mainline sidings, but I’m tempted to try a couple of the new Walthers #10’s. I have long cars (passenger cars, TOFC flat cars and auto racks) and they like long turnouts. If you are running shorter rolling stock, which you seem to be doing, then yeah, you probably don’t need #10 turnouts, or maybe even #8.
[+o(]The #12’s are shockingly huge. About 19" long from top to bottom. I still look at the printout I have of the switch and shake my head. They are monsters for sure.
And I’m not sure on the Atlas. As to why they made a huge turn in the last few years. I know they switched suppliers in China and that was a cause of a lot of the issues. Maybe we just got a bad batch? But literally on a layout with 25 switches 3 were bad right out of the box, and 15 others needed tweaking and all of them needed finesing to get to work right.
If I’m going to take the time to finesse and make sure my switch is tight and working properly right out of the box? I’m going to just build them. It’s not worth my time or frustration. We ran Atlas for YEARS and never had issues. But just in the last 5 it’s been enough to make dad and I both say, “screw this” and we will never go back.
Now looking at our layout with 80+ switches…I’m not about to get motivated to fine tune the switches that in my opinion should be 99% good right out of the box. I’d rather spend that time fine tuning some precision #12 turnouts and never look back.
Unfortunately Atlas has burned a bridge with us. This will hopefully be our last layout and we aren’t taking any chances!
Although a lot of your guys points have got me to doing Peco Flex track. No longer considering hand laying 1200’ of straight.
Yeah, you must have gotten a bad batch. I bought around 10 Atlas code 83 #6 in around 2015/16 and they were all pretty good. Did you contact Atlas about replacements? I would have rather that than toss the entire company out the window. They have had good customer service in my experience.
Have you tried Peco turnouts? So far they seem very good and I’ve heard universally good comments from other Peco users too. Of course the largest they make are #8 so if you need larger, especially monster #12’s …
I have tried a couple Peco turnouts and it still seems like they needed some fine tuning. They were considerably better than the Atlas though from what I saw.
I never did contact Atlas. It got to be that there were so many switches that needed help that I just didn’t have the time with my current schedule. Then we started the road to building a house and of course the new railroad shop and we are scrapping the whole layout in the garage now anyway. So it probably wasn’t fair to Atlas but…sort of how it goes. I don’t have anything bad to say about Atlas because they worked for a lot of years. But unfortuantely I’m moving on from those guys. I still will use flex track and other products from them, just not turnouts.
As I stated before, I would probably look at doing another brand of switches like Peco or one of the others but everything is packed. And I have about a year before any layout will be started. And for the cost…I’d rather use this time to really focus on making smooth as butter precision switches.
And the new layout is big…huge compared to what I’ve had all my life but it’s not monsterous I don’t feel? Maybe it is. 2000sq ft. I use a wheelchair to get around so it will just be nice to have room to have a big shelf type layout that offers 100% accessability. All my previous layouts have had spots I can’t get to and that sucks!
