Hi Guys well its that time of the year ,but here in A.Z were going from one extreame to the next getting cold here last night it got down to 28F burr and now i need to heat the garage AKA train room any of you use propaine heaters or what do you use that works well?
Carl…
From a guy who has had to wheather model railroading in a 30 below garage in Wyoming. Nothing like gloves a nice heavy coat and a thick wool cap.
Cheapest and most effective option I have found so far.
James
Full size replica firebox and anthracite?
Seriously, if you’re using a gas bottle heater with incandescent burners beware of:
anything falling or otherwise getting within ignition distance
anything being close enough to build up heat and ignite (including smouldering)
BE EXTRA CAUTIOUS ABOUT
build-up of exhaust gases in a confined space / this also means reduction of oxygen.
Gas bottle heaters also produce condensation if I recall correctly… may not be so good for the layout over a prolongued period.
Don’t know what space / volume you are heating… but I would tend to go for a low level background electric heat. you only need to be looking for 33 degrees F… (If that? Do trains really need to be kept warm)?
You can get “Frost guard” thermostatic controls from garden centres here… imagine you can in US. These will only turn on (and cost you fuel) when temp approaches freezing. We can also get parafin greenhouse heaters… with a 7 day fuel tank. Very low level of heat… but enough unless the temp really dives.
Is garage attached to house… could get enough heat by conduction/convection through wall.
Always beware of fire risk… especially radiant heat building up in anything close by.
Plastic models can warp if heated…
How good’s your insulation? Wrong time of year to do much but at least stop most drafts… BUT…IF YOU GO FOR BURNING A FUEL… ESPECIALLY A GAS… YOU ABSOLUTLEY MUST PROVIDE VENTIALTION… YOU COULD KILL YOURSELF OTHERWISE.
The need for ventilation is the same as if you have a gas fuelled central heating system or a piped gas fire in a room.
Oh, yes… have fun!
JUST THOUGHT… DO YOU PUT THE CAR/AUTO IN THERE AS WELL?
DON’T MIX FLAME AND A FUEL TANK!
OR A SPARE FUEL CAN…
AND AN EMPTY (of liquid) CAN IS MORE DANGEROUS THAN A FULL CAN (it has fumes in
YUP! Dead right!.. so long as you can still move your arms inside all the layers!
BUT reminds me… If you are heating just while you are in there… MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A REMINDER TO TURN OFF WHEN YOU GO.
ALSO
BEWARE OF SOLVNET FUMES IGNITING
BE CAUTIOUS ABOUT LEAVING ANYTHING (Bits of paper, magazines etc) that can fall onto heater both while you’re in there and if you pop out “just for a moment”. It’s exactly like what we would call a “chip pan fire”.
A thermopstaitcally controlled electric heater placed safely is much the better way to go.
Have fun.
(Thinking of which, a warm body is by far the best way to keep warm).
Any source of combustion that is not vented outside WILL yield a great deal of unwanted water vapour. You do not want that, believe me, not at those temps and in an uninsulated garage.
Use radiant heat from ceramic heaters or Slant-Fin type electrical heaters. It’ll cost you $10 per month at most during the worst cold spells, so hardly a bank breaker.
OMG Carl… Nag nag nag…
Its too hot, its too cold… hehehehe
[:D]
Funny thing, I was thinking the same thing. I have a temp gauge in the gargae (one of those outdoor cute garden type) and it said 55 degress on it the other day. I laughed when I remembered when it said 105.
I am kinda lucky since my garage door faces south. The sun warms it upduring the day and keeps it nice. All thoguh, not sure if it is an option but I ended up taking off the door from the house to the gargage. Its like another room on the house now. Atleast now I can talk to the girl when from in there and she doesnt feel like I am always gone hiding. it has actually been a great thing to do
One thing maybe to think about… Did you ever put the foam in the door? Ya got insluate that sucker. Even if you did get a small heater, it wont be able to keep up with that 16 foot thin aluminum door.
Reply here or shoot me an email and I can send you some pics of mine. You might spend 30 bucks and get all the foam you need to do the door. It will make a HUGE differnce. Then maybe a small electric heater fan or something will do it.
Take care man. Hope all is well with the family andy you had a great Thanksgiving weekend.
Best Regards
John k
if the garage is well insulated 1 or 2 small electric heaters may be able to do the job. otherwise try a blue-flame ventless on the wall propane or LPG heater people say they work well.
If you only need to heat the layout room occasionally, a portable electric heater is probably your best bet. Clean, quiet, quick, plus pretty cheap initial cost. If you have an actual “heating season”, like we do here in the Great White North, permanently mounted electric baseboard heaters with their own thermostat might be better. While I’m partial to heating with electricity, my own layout room, located in my basement, is unheated. The room is comfortable on all but the coldest of winter days, and even then, it takes a few days of sustained cold weather before I bother to plug in a small portable heater. The fact that it’s a basement helps keep the temperature fairly constant and that it’s well insulated certainly helps. Some blue or pink extruded foam insulation on the inside of your garage door will make a big difference, both summer and winter.
Wayne
My solution works well, but it was pricey - I have a window-mounted heat pump. Had to put a lot of other spending plans “on hold” to get it, but I consider it a worthwhile investment. The garage was miserably cold in the winter without it, I almost totally lost interest in even building a layout until I installed it.
Ok!..as a model railroader who is also a oil heat dealer,let me add my 2 cents worth
1st…you did not say if this garage is " finsihed"…ie no garage doors to let in cold…are you on a 2nd floor above garage.? I assume that there is electricicty since you run your trains
You can install a warm air furnace that is relitivly cheap compaired to boiler istall with radiant or baseboard. Only need to put on before you go into garage as long as no pipes etc to frreze when not there. Tank can be stored outside so does not interfere with the trains.
this would also apply if you went with propain.
There is a product here in NE that has been greatly accepted. There called “pellet” stoves. They are like wood burning stoves but are compact and burn little pellets of wood and these things pump out the heat. They are compact and easy to maintan as no stacked cords of wood and no big mess…this is deffently something i would look into…now back to my layout…regards Tom
I use a propane heater in an insulated 13.5 x22 foot garage located in the Pinelands of southern New Jersey. I purchased a 35,000 BTU torpedo heater, which was very effective when I started the project to convert an uninsulated garage with a leaky garage door into a suitable room. This was the smallest sized torpedo heater avaiable two years ago and it probably is a bit of overkill for the room now. I am currently spackling the the drywall seams and work up a sweat wearing a sweatshirt in a 45 degree room, so I never have to run the heater for more than a few minutes when I first go in there.
The room has a 36" door and two windows side by side. A 10,000 BTU room air conditioner is mounted in one of the windows. The door and windows are on the same side of the garage, which is situated about 20 feet from the house. Since the permit stated that this room would have private use only (not open to the general public) additional windows or doorways were not required.
Your area does not get as cold as it can down in South Jersey, so an electric convection type (radiator) heater would probably adequate and not cost you an arm and a leg to operate. Stay away from any type of heater that has visible heating elements that will glow red when the heater is operating, or for that matter, any type heater that has surfaces that get hot to the touch, regardless of the heat source.
I agree with Dr. Wayne, insulating and sealing your garage will probably eliminate the need for almost any kind of heater in your climate. You said it got down to 28 degrees one night. An uninsulated grage will pretty much follow the outside temperature only if it is totally detached from the rest of the house. An insulated garage is like an electrical capacitor. It will store energy and not go below the AVERAGE temperature of the day and not even reach that until the average temperature has held steady for about two weeks.
Good post. This now confirms what I will do. I’m down here in hot as [}:)] country during most of the year and when Jan/Feb comes it’s … man, I can’t wait for the summer again … year after year it goes.
Train room is in garage. Aluminum door faces south. Remainder of walls we had insulated when house was built (little did I know that it would eventually end up as the train room). Will insulate garage door and see how it goes. I may invest in a small portable electric, or, just keep the door to the house open for a couple of hours to just take the chill out if I’m out there in the early wee hours of the morn.
So, once again, learned something real useful from the forum!
ac4400fan,
I live in Sierra Vista, Arizona. We use propane heaters at our clubhouse, which has no central heat. Heaters are used only when someone is there. Originally, we tried the type of heaters that fit on top of the propane bottle, but the round ones make a loud roaring noise and don’t heat very well, so if you decide to try one, spend the extra money and get the rectangular infrared type.
We recently changed to a wall-mounted propane heater that I bought from Harbor Tools in Tucson for less than $100, with an oxygen depletion sensor and built-in thermostat. Propane gives off water vapor when it burns, which is sometimes advantageous in our dry climate.
Are you a propanorist?
I’d use a blue flame propane wall mount if I was in your position. That’s also what I use here in Oklahoma, it has the oxygen depletion sensor and everything, so it’s pretty safe to keep it burning. If you have Tractor Supply stores, they have some pretty good ones made out of tough enough metalt that they shouldn’t be burning out anytime too soon.
My old layout was in a 100+ year old fieldstone basement with original windows. The place was a cold, dank dungeon. I knocked down a couple of non load-bearing walls, replaced the windows, sealed the foundation, and added insulated studwalls and a real ceiling. Since it was so cold and miserable down there in the winter, I planned for an installed three heating ducts for the basement. Once I replaced the windows and insulated all the walls (including the ceiling and interior walls), the new basement was hot with ALL the vents closed! It cut my home heating bills in half.
So my advice is to insulate, seal, and fini***he walls and ceiling, and to tie into the home heating/cooling circuit. It’ll pay off in the long run.
Good Advice Guys Keep it comming ,from what i read so far starting with insulating the door with foam board sounds like a good start, What do you think of carpet on the floor also?
Carl.
John. Dont
i know it my friend.Im going to start with the door first[:D]
Carpet on floor…
The deepest shag pile you can find! (Um, do you have shag pile in the US)?
Will not only help keep you warm, be comfortable and easy on the feet… it will give you hours of fun finding those kadee springs and other small parts that go flying…
Then again you could go for a rally good quality industrial underlay and office carpet. For your use it should do all the capret things you want and last forever.
As for the low flying parts… I use a box big enough to be comfortable working at (like workng into a TV) lined with army blanket… small bits either hook up or bounce about softly so that they don’t go far. A little care detaching them from the fabric surface and I’m ready for the next attempt. Beats searching the room.
Have fun.
I was under the impression that it is almost necessary for a layout room to be enviromentally controlled. I have seen the cold do equally nasty things to plastics that heat does, especially in very dry climates. I myself live on the front range of the Rockies where it is really dry. I am considering putting a humidifier in the basement. I would assume that if conditions are too dry that could be a problem as well.
In the words of Hank Hill " Propane and propane accessories"