I ordered the matching Helix Humper motor (#152) from Alliance Locomotive Products for my Bowser 4-8-4 kit on September 5th, but I still didn´t receive it. After waiting for 4 weeks, I called them, and the father of the owner told me that his son (the owner) is currently very ill and that it is not sure if he can return to business or not. He offered me to refund me the money that I paid for the motor (via paypal), but also offered me to wait until his son gets better. I chose the second option and told him that I can still wait for another month. But now after almost 2 months, they still haven´t shipped it, and when I called them multiple times yesterday and today, nobody picked up the phone. The problem is that I need this matching motor for my 4-8-4 Bowser kit in order to upgrade it to DCC, but I can´t buy it anywhere else. I still didn´t find any other website on the internet that offers these Helix Humper motors as well. Can somebody maybe help me and tell me where else I can buy it? I really couldn´t find any other website offering them. Or is there any other recommendable can motor for a Bowser 4-8-4 kit that has to be upgraded to DCC?
Rob suffers from a severe case of depression, his Dad has taken over the store and has been running it now for quite a few years. Rob is the only one there that makes them, his Dad has been trying to get him in there to catch up on back orders. His Dad is a very kind and gentle person and he will do the right thing, It sometimes takes a few months to convince Rob to come in and build them. Rob bought the Helix Humper company just before his depression started, that is the only place they are now made. I was just over there a few weeks ago and his Dad hadn’t seen him in over a month then. You might want to contact Bowser and see if they know of a newer repower motor for that loco, it might be your best option. Call Rob’s and see if they can offer anymore help or get your money back and try something else.
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Replacing the open frame motor permanent magnet with neodyium super magnets will reduce current draw and inprove pulling power.
Bowser seems to list their updated motors as out of stock, unfortunately. They might still have the insulator to add to the old one to isolate both brushes fromt he frame, which is really the only difference with their “DCC” motor. Combined with stronger magnets, it may be just fine with the hot-rodded stock motor.
–Randy
I know that. I talked with his dad pretty much on the phone and quickly found out what a very kind and gentle person he is. He told me many details about his sons illness but didn´t call it a depression. I don´t wanna go into details since it´s really private and not supposed for a public forum, but until now I didn´t know that depression can also affect you physically and not only psychically. It´s really tragic. Those phone numbers you wrote down don´t work. They are dead. Only this one here works: 330-823-9133. After dialing this number I got hold of his dad. But in the last 2 days nobody picked up the phone. The other numbers still don´t work. I will try very much to reach his dad and then let´s hear and see what will happen. Too bad they are the only ones who produce these motors.
Have you tried any of the dealers listed on the Alliance website?
Perhaps one dealer might have what you are looking for.
On Yahoo there is a group called Repower and Regear. they are quite a helpful group and a number of them do this kind of work. They also have many discussions on motor characteristics and performance . Also many discussions on gears and regearing .You have to join the group to read and post questions but you might find it worthwhile.
Ron High
What is the concern with the stock motor? Too much current draw or are you unable to isolate it from the frame?
I find the open-frame motors noisy, prone to attract small metal objects, and big power draws. I prefer the closed type. I’ve tried the helix humper on a bowser pacific and it’s great. I did have to do some grinding to make it fit. Quieter than what NWSL offers (although I don’t know how they compare in terms of power and amps). I love NWSL for other stuff though… Simon
I was able to reach Robs dad! He will refund me the money because Rob is still very ill and it sadly became worse. So for now I can forget the Helix Humper since they are enot availbale anywhere else, especially not that quite rare Bowser 4-8-4.
@ Ron: thanks for this info. Didn´t know about this group. Will ask for help there. Maybe someone know what kind of can motor could be the best to be fitted inside a Bowser 4-8-4.
@ snjroy: exactly my thoughts too! Too noisy, prone to attract objects and big power draws. I really need and want a can motor!
A NWSL gear box and motor would be the best way to go if the helix humper kit cannot be located. Much harder to install, however…
Well, could be true. I couldn´t do that kind of work by myself anyway. But do you have any idea which NWSL motor and gearbox would fit a Bowser 4-8-4? Or should I contact NWSL and ask them directly?
Hi. You don’t necessarily need to change the gearbox if it still works. Changing the motor is fairly simple. Measure the old motor and try to find one that matches it in terms of size. The NWSL site provides size information of the motors. I recommend using one that you can fit a flywheel on (double shaft). Get the biggest motor that will fit based on the size of the old motor. Also, check the size of the shaft to see if it matches the old one. If you need a bushing, NWSL sells them too. And if you are going to order from NWSL, why not get the gear puller tool if you don’t have one. You’ll need that to remove the gear from the original motor. The motor will come with instructions on how to install it using silicone. It’s too bad that the helix humper motors are not available, they definitely made it a lot simpler and their prices were very reasonable…
Good luck!
Simon
The problem is this engine does not have a gear box. The worm is pressed onto the end of the open frame motor and the motor is rigidly mounted to the frame. The Bowser motor is probably a 2.4 mm shaft and replacement motors, such as Kato, PPW and NWSL are 2.0.
Per the NWSL site about adapters and bushings: “NWSL discourages use of bushings but makes this limited selection available to help save those ‘impossible’ model building situations”. I avoid using bushing adapters.
So his worm will not fit a replacement motor. He could make his own gear box with 2 bearing, 2 brackets and a shaft to fit the worm but that takes some skill to get the worm / gear mesh correct.
The NWSL gear box needs to match the axle diameter, typically 1/8 inch. You pull the non-insulated wheel, pull the old drive gear off and press on the NWSL. Replace the drive wheel using a quarterer or scribe marks. Open up the frame so the gear box can fit though and mount the largest motor/flywheel which will fit with silicone. A driveshaft kit attaches the motor shaft to the gearbox shaft.
NWSL used to have a round 2032 (20mm diameter, 32mm long) that was awesome. Now they list a flat can 20mm.
Its always best to contact the manufacturer and see what they recommend. They may even install it for you?
Bet you wish you could find the humper kit…
Jim, you are right, there is no gearbox, my mistake. What I have done with my bowser 4-6-2 (and MDC steamers) is to keep the original gears and just replaced the motor. I built motor craddles and used silicone to fit the engine and worm gear to mesh with the gear on the wheel. The trick is to set it not too tight… there should be a little space between the gears. If it doesn’t work the first time, I just rip it out and try again. As for the bushing, some of mine have been holding for several years now. The trick is to put some “teeth” on the shaft by putting it in a vise and gently pressing it to leave some marks. Get it to get just enough friction to be able to put the bushing on the shaft with just a bit of friction left. Then you can glue the bushing with crazy glue. Works for me. But putting in a NWSL gearbox is certainly an option (I’ve never done it). I’ve heard that if you call NWSL, they can tell you which gearbox will fit.
Simon
Simon,
What motors did you use? Did the growl go away?
Most of my rebuilt engines are with NWSL. Most of the growl went away with the new motors, although like I wrote earlier, the NWSL are not the most quiet ones. Some broke in and became quiet after about 60 minutes of operation. Others still have a bit of a wirring sound and I’m hoping that will go away with time. Growl from the gears depends on the engine. I have practically no growl from my MDC steamers (oldtime 2-8-0, pensy 2-8-0, 4-4-2, 2-8-0 Hon3), but for some reason, my 4-6-0 still has a growl (I plan to rip out the engine and put new silicone to see what happens). My MDC shay is still noisy, but DCC sound covers it pretty well 
Two brass engines, a shay and a climax, got NWSLs and both are quiet and smooth. Also changed a Mantua prairie and porter 0-4-0 (ken kidder) with NWSLs with surprisingly good results. Helix humper and some no-names I found have been quieter than NWSL. Not sure if the torque is better though. Anyway, I managed pretty well without new gear boxes.
Simon
Well, it´s indeed too bad I can´t get the matching Helix Humper motor. Ok, it migh be possible that Alliance Locomotive Products will start delivering their stuff again after the recovering of the owner, but sadly it seems that this won´t be the case in near future since he is suffering terribly from his illness. But I don´t wanna wait for months (or years?) until I can get that Helix Humper motor, so I think I will have to watch out for others. The problem is that I´m not able to install a motor because I never did this kind of stuff before. That 4-8-4 kit will also be my very first kit to build, so I´m quite exited. But I think I will manage to put together everything except the motor and decoder installation. One good thing is that the drivers and main rods have already been installed to the frame by the previous owner. Here are 3 photos (shot by the seller on ebay):
But there is another problem: I live in Germany, and that 4-8-4 kit that I bought on ebay USA is still residing at my friends house in Seattle, WA. I also bought some more model train stuff on ebay USA that all has been shipped to him, so I will save a lot on shipping because my friend will send it all to me in one package very soon. I would like to contact NWSL, but in my eyes it would be logical to contact them after I have assembled the 4-8-4 kit and after I saw how much space there is left for the motor, so that I can give them the correct informations about measurements. But NWSL is locacted in Hamilton MT, which isn´t too far away from Seattle WA. So in case they would offer installing a NWSL motor for me, it would be stupid to ship the engine first to me to Germany and then back to the USA again. But since the engine kit isn´t ready yet, I think it
Did nwsl offer you both options 2 & 3 ?
Jim (Soo Line fan)'s question is very relevant. I’m pretty sure Bowser also offered this service a few years back, so you might want to check with them as well. A few other observations:
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Usually when assembling kits, you start with the frame, the wheels and the valve gear. Looking at the photos, the valve gear does not seem to be assembled on yours (maybe that’s why it was sold…). Is that the case? Look at the instructions, I’m pretty sure you will need to assemble that first AND ensure that everything rolls freely before installing any motor (by NWSL or yourself).
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Installing the valve gear is a bit tricky. If it’s your first install, the real test will be installing the motor and trying things on a test track. You can use the stock motor for that. Installing and removing the stock motor is quite easy, so why not do that and get it to run properly before anything else. You will also need to assemble the tender for testing, but that’s easy to do.
-Whether you use the stock motor or another one, you should probably install that with the undetailed boiler before adding the details (bell, light, etc). Also, if you send it to NWSL, an engine without the details is less likely to break in transit and during motor assembly.
-For the motor itself, if you choose to install it yourself, you should probably buy a new one - the ones you show look doubtful to me. This is a rather heavy puppy once assembled so you will need something powerful, that does not draw too much current. Based on the dimensions of the stock one, buy the biggest one you can find. Making room for a small flywheel at the end should not be a problem (you’ll need to measure the room in the cab). If you intend to go that route, consider the NWSL motors and flywheels. They have a good selection of both.
But allow me to ask you a question: can you do this from Germany? Do you plan on doing this when you get back? If you have a bit of time, maybe it’
@ Soo Line fan: I contacted NWSL and they offered me option number 3! Very nice of them!
@ snjroy: Thanks for all the advices and descriptions. Highly appreciated by me. Although this time NWSL will install it for me, your lines are not meant to be forgotten, because that Bowser 4-8-4 might not be the last kit in my life and I´m sure the day will come when will build another steam locomotive kit, and then I really wanna try it on my own. But what do you mean with “Do you plan on doing this when you get back?”??? Just to avoid any misunderstanding: I´m in Germany, the kit is at my friends house in Seattle, WA. I have never been to the USA yet in my life, which is somehow weird since I visited many other countries in my life yet and because I´m a big fan of US railroads and nature/landscape. But the day will come maybe somewhen in 2017 or 2018 I guess. Well, the illness is now both psychical and physical which is very hard, but I also whish him all the best to fight his illness. When his dad told me the details about his illness I was really touched although I don´t know these people at all. But his dad seems to be a very nice person, so I suppose his son is too, and I wish them all the best to get back to 100% healthiness again and also to get back to business.