I’ve been experimenting with forming splines made out of white pine. For planning purposes I’ve been using Masonite splines which are pretty flexible. On a whim recently I sliced up a white pine 1x3 to 1/4 inch thickness on the table saw and I liked it’s strength and whatnot, and it seems to have just the right amount of vertical “flex”.
So to test it out I went to bend it in a curve somewhere around a 36 inch radius. I could feel it just starting to give at that radius so I put some hot water with a little bit of dish soap in a spray bottle and wet it down and let it soak in for a few minutes. Then it became really pliable and was able to flex all the way down to the required radius with no issue. (It probably would have gone even tighter too. From what I’ve read, people have had success all the way down to 20 inches or better, but that’s not my issue).
The thing I’m having trouble with is getting “good” curves. With the Masonite everything flows very smoothly, all I need to do is bend it to the proper radius and it (generally / usually) forms a nice, smooth, flowing curve. With the white pine splines the curves are not as smooth-- for lack of a better description, they are “misshapen” and “lumpy”. They are not the nice and smooth flowing curves like I get with the Masonite splines.
Several thoughts come to mind as I consider the issue-- the first being that the white pine splines are a bit thicker than the Masonite splines I’ve been using, nearly twice as thick. The Masonite splines are in the 1/8 inch range (some a little thinner, some a little thicker-- I’ve found a lack of consistency in dimension there, but not a big deal overall). Another is that the white pine, not being a “manufactured” product, is going to have natural variations in it’s grain-- knots, etc., that are going to affect it’s bending and curving ability.
So how to deal with it? One thought I’ve had is to pre-form the curves, as it’s really only the full turn-back c
Remember old mrr mag. article, way back, in which really choice pine was chosen for this. It had no knots, was straight-grained, as the author was adamant about this being the only way it would work successfully. And, he built home-made steamer from large diameter pipe [ possibly 6 inch DWV plastic ] in which he’d put long pine strips, shove plastic end cap on, steam [ via hose/valve threaded into cap end ] for desired interval, and bend/clamp aroung forms of varying radii he’d built. Then, when wood was dry, t’was assembled into curved spline sections w/glue and clamped, staggering all spline joints for strength. It would be cut to desired length sections afterward and added onto his layout r-o-w. Hope this may help a bit. TTFN…papasmurf
Several years ago when I was looking for a way to put a permanent bend into some pine boards, I was advised to use a large diameter PVC pipe filled with ammonia to soak the wood for a week or more, then remove the boards and clamp them into the desired position and allow to dry for another two weeks until the ammonia had completely evaporated; and it worked.
Needless to say, all of this had to be accomplished outdoors.
IIRC, the person who provided this advice said that’s how barrel staves are formed.
Back in the 1960s when the Bobby Hull of the Chicago Blackhawks came up with a curved Hockey stick we all had to have one. Of course Hockey sticks were still made out of wood back then. So much to our parents shagrin we soaked our expensive blades in a bucket of hot water overnight, put them in the vice over the next night and showed up at the rink with our Bobby Hull specials. They stayed curved, the method worked. But for some reason the hundred mile an hour slap shot didn’t come with the curved stick.
I think the process of soaking pine splines in a PVC tube is a good one if bending is required. However this would only ad to any warping issues down the road. Also ad to the expense and in the end may create other unforeseen problems. With a 4’ x 8’ sheet of Masonite at $7.00 why mess around with pine.
The natural transitions that you get from Masonite are stunning. When you look at track running its course on spline vs: cookie cutter or track on foam or plywood you look at it and go Wow! Yet you cannot explain why it looks so much better. In the pic below I have the lower track on foam. Even though it is hard to tell from this pic, the spline track looks way better. I wished I had used spline on the lower track as well and only put the track on the foam in yard situations. Something for the next layout.
John, if you look at the photo below you can see a nail in the riser. This is the centre of the curve where the middle spline goes. I just curved the first spline around the nail and after I glued the second one on, removed the nail and glued the centre spline in. Once the second spline is glued to the first one it stays in a rock solid curve. I don’t see why pine would not behave the same way.
I cannot say enough good things about spline. I think a helix would be easy and cheap using spline. Even though I woul
Brent, I noticed that you didn’t use cork roadbed on the track laid on the spline, but did use it on the track laid on the foam. What’s the noise level like on the upper track? Just curious.
It is pretty quiet actually. In the picture below you can see a span of about four feet with no risers. This is where I will cut out the spline (in 2025[(-D]) to put in my big steel bridge I am planning on scratch building. The canyon will go to the floor.
When the train crosses this expanse it is virtually silent other than the wheels rolling on the track. I think if you used rubber washers or pieces of old inner tube between the risers and the grid benchwork it would be incredibly quiet the whole length. Something else to remember for the next layout.
On another note, the long span with no support is rock solid. You can really push down on it and there is no flex at all. I was a little concerned when I put it in that I would need temporary supports for it but they were definitely not required.
Cutting the pine splines was way easier than doing the masonite splines. And I just got through cutting a bunch more just now. I went up to home depot and got more pine boards. This time I looked through them all and picked out the ones that were the absolute cleanest with no knots or bad grain. My Dad came over and he and I ripped them on the table saw with hardly any effort. I remember the near-nightmare day I had cutting the masonite splines, and I remember thinking it wasn’t too bad b
If you have a piece of heavier plywood draw your curve on it and pound some nails or use screws along the line and bend the wood around the nails. If you need the wood to bend easier could you cut a thinner piece of spline to use as a starter or try nicking it along the back every inch or so.
If it behaves like Masonite you should be able to move it to the layout once two pieces are glued together and continue to ad splines there. I hope I have grasped what you are trying to accomplish.
I have always like the idea of spline roadbed, and Masonite is the way to go - It curve ‘perfect’. The ‘problem’ is when mounting switch machines one has to deal with the depth of the spline(2" in my case). This problem also rears it ugly head with 2" foam layouts. I had to do some ‘engineering’ and wound up making offset mounts for my Tortoise motors.
I have both spline and 1/2" plwood sub-roadbed - after scenery, I really cannot tell the difference anymore - But the splines sure looked ‘cool’ when it was just benchwork/track. A friend used 1/8" Masonite with 3/8" pine spacers every 12"(they are 3-4" long and were cut from pine parting stock he bought at the local home improvement store. He has 4 layers of 1/8" Masonite, with 3 ‘spacers’ in between. This gives him 1 5/8" subroadbed that he lays Homabed roadbed on top of. He hand lays his track and allows a ‘notch’ on the two inner sections for mounting his Tortoise motors. A lot of work and pre-planning - But it does look & run good.
As far as using it for a ‘helix’ - there would be a grade problem as the extreme thickness of the splines would make for a heavy grade, and one would need to have some kind of extended support for the treaded rods to go through. I think doubled up plywood is still the way to go there.
Yes, that’s what I’m needing to do. That’s a good suggestion, I’ll give it a try. I agree that once the first round gets set the rest will probably go just fine. Thanks for your help!
2 inches !?!? That’s pretty thick! You could probably drive a real train on that!
I cut a bunch of masonite spine strips a couple of year ago and I’ve been using them ever since to help in planning & mocking up track plan ideas-- which, I must say, they do wonderfully. A really good way to see “for real” and in 3D what something is likely to look like without spending a lot of time or money. Some “stock” lumbers, some L-Girders, and a bunch of clamps makes it easy to try / test stuff out before committing
I have absolutely no experience with spline of any material; however, it occurs to me that if you want a wood spline, rather than expending the effort of cutting larger dimension lumber, why not buy lattice stock which tends to be available in 3/16" thickness IIRC? Also-at higher cost-you can buy PVC lattice stock-very flexible.
I have looked at those and found lattice stock snapped easily and had way too many knots and other flaws in it and was generally crap wood that would be frustrating at best to use. I have messed around a bit with PVC molding that was 1/8" x 1" x 8’ but found it didn’t transition vertically very well. Also using PVC glue didn’t appeal to me that much.
Masonite splines are dirt cheap compared to PVC. You can do 48’ of roadbed for $7.00 and no cork is required as the track goes right on the spline. The two outside splines can be cut with a bevel to simulate the shoulder of the roadbed. Masonite splines were easily smoothed with a rasp which I also used to quickly ad some super elevation to them. I would think PVC would be difficult to shape and level.
Masonite splines and a glue gun made for an enjoyable build.
I’ve been experimenting with forming splines made out of white pine. For planning purposes I’ve been using Masonite splines which are pretty flexible. On a whim recently I sliced up a white pine 1x3 to 1/4 inch thickness on the table saw and I liked it’s strength and whatnot, and it seems to have just the right amount of vertical “flex”.
So to test it out I went to bend it in a curve somewhere around a 36 inch radius. I could feel it just starting to give at that radius so I put some hot water with a little bit of dish soap in a spray bottle and wet it down and let it soak in for a few minutes. Then it became really pliable and was able to flex all the way down to the required radius with no issue. (It probably would have gone even tighter too. From what I’ve read, people have had success all the way down to 20 inches or better, but that’s not my issue).
The thing I’m having trouble with is getting “good” curves. With the Masonite everything flows very smoothly, all I need to do is bend it to the proper radius and it (generally / usually) forms a nice, smooth, flowing curve. With the white pine splines the curves are not as smooth-- for lack of a better description, they are “misshapen” and “lumpy”. They are not the nice and smooth flowing curves like I get with the Masonite splines.
Several thoughts come to mind as I consider the issue-- the first being that the white pine splines are a bit thicker than the Masonite splines I’ve been using, nearly twice as thick. The Masonite splines are in the 1/8 inch range (some a little thinner, some a little thicker-- I’ve found a lack of consistency in dimension there, but not a big deal overall). Another is that the white pine, not being a “manufactured” product, is going to have natural variations in it’s grain-- knots, etc., that are going to affect it’s bending and curving ability.
So how to deal with it? One thought I’ve had is to pre-form the curves, as it’s
I’ve been experimenting with forming splines made out of white pine. For planning purposes I’ve been using Masonite splines which are pretty flexible. On a whim recently I sliced up a white pine 1x3 to 1/4 inch thickness on the table saw and I liked it’s strength and whatnot, and it seems to have just the right amount of vertical “flex”.
So to test it out I went to bend it in a curve somewhere around a 36 inch radius. I could feel it just starting to give at that radius so I put some hot water with a little bit of dish soap in a spray bottle and wet it down and let it soak in for a few minutes. Then it became really pliable and was able to flex all the way down to the required radius with no issue. (It probably would have gone even tighter too. From what I’ve read, people have had success all the way down to 20 inches or better, but that’s not my issue).
The thing I’m having trouble with is getting “good” curves. With the Masonite everything flows very smoothly, all I need to do is bend it to the proper radius and it (generally / usually) forms a nice, smooth, flowing curve. With the white pine splines the curves are not as smooth-- for lack of a better description, they are “misshapen” and “lumpy”. They are not the nice and smooth flowing curves like I get with the Masonite splines.
Several thoughts come to mind as I consider the issue-- the first being that the white pine splines are a bit thicker than the Masonite splines I’ve been using, nearly twice as thick. The Masonite splines are in the 1/8 inch range (some a little thinner, some a little thicker-- I’ve found a lack of consistency in dimension there, but not a big deal overall). Another is that the white pine, not being a “manufactured” product, is going to have natural variations in it’s grain-- knots, etc., that are going
Once the scenery is in, you will have a hard time telling the difference between good spline and good cookie cutter techniques. The main reason cited for spline (especially clear pine) is to get a good base for hand laying track. Smooth flowing track work and all the attendant gullies etc can be had with a variety of methods.
Typically, clear pine is used for its superior spike holding capabilities for hand laying track. Are you going to be hand laying your track?? In my area the cost of knot free pine would make a layout of any size a rather expensive undertaking when compared to other methods, is the cost and hassle worth it if you aren’t hand laying track? There is also the homasote alternative for a good hand laying base. Each camp has its adherents, both have good and not so good aspects.
OK if you aren’t hand laying, but still like spline - how about buying a batch of masonite and paying to have it accurately cut (ala Fugate, he has lots of info on this technique) ? Much easier than soaking wood, etc, but no good for spiking unless topped with another material.
Everyone makes their own choices according to their own needs, likes etc, Just some questions for you to think about…
There is some very nice road bed work in this thread. Congrats to you guys…
The structural strength of the transition point is connecting the foam and spline to the grid or plywood benchwork underneath it. They butt up against each other but the only mechanical connection is a bit of Dap or Caulk to fill the crack.
Make sure when you butt it up you remember to allow for the cork roadbed on top of the foam that will meet your beveled spline seamlessly.
Here the spline goes right into the foam, no cork as it is a siding right on the foam. The spline is attached to the grid underneath. The track and spline in behind does not go as far down in to the foam as it is the mainline and butts up against cork roadbed.
This is a double wide section of spline. Track still needs painting and ballasting. The foam for the mountains caulked to the side of the spline and is very secure. The rolling part is cardboard weave attached to the spline with a glue gun and goo dipped cotton sheet.
