Hopefully I copied this link correctly
http://www.sehsr.org/reports/hsr/eval_hsr_options.pdf
For some this will be boring reading but for those that do it seems to me that there is a glaring assumption in the right of way requirements. Only 40’ ROW for a double track high speed line. This seems a bit narrow to me given that UP and BNSF now use 25’ track centers. Would the folks here that know about such things chime in. Thanks.
John
Clickable link…
Remember that UP and BNSF have their 25’ track centers way out west in AZ and NM, where there’s miles of empty space all around - not in the east where there’s trees, hills, and private property all around. Land out west is a lot cheaper than in the east…
Yes, I understand the “empty” land out west and the crowding here in the east. I was refering more to the narrow ROW from an engineering aspect. Not much room for cuts and fills with a 40’ ROW and I know the Piedmont area from Charlotte to Atlanta has numerious hills and dales.
John
I scanned through the thing. It picks up where the previous study leaves off. The old study looked at what could be done with the existing alignment. This study looks at variations of realignment, from minimal (the 110/125 mph max speeds) to radical (200 mph - along interstate ROW).
The “profitable” scenarios were the 125 and 150 max “diesel” hauled trains. Four train sets making 3:30 to 4:00 trips from Atlanta(and Macon) to Charlotte. This is about what driving takes now at 5 to 10 over the posted 60/65/70 mph limits on I-85. Investment was about $2B. Ridership was roughly 1M per year for year 2025. This is a bit less that the Capitol Corridor and NJT Atlantic City Line ridership now, to put in in perspective.
It looked like any ancillary benefit to frt traffic on the route was out of scope of the study.
The study suggested that if the gov’t did the investment, a private operater, operating more efficiently than Amtrak and typical commuter agencies, could turn a profit operating the line. It also showed the the profitability improved if HSR was implemented north of Charlotte.
There was an energy study in the appendix, but unfortunately, there was no Btu/pass mile and I was too lazy to do the math.
You’re right in that the study needs a reality check on the R-O-W width assumptions. 40 ft. is the rock-bottom minimum, and would be used only in an urban corridor where real estate is so expensive that it is cheaper to construct retaining walls instead of cut-or-fill slopes for the trackbed, fences are just outside the clearance envelope, drainage is by underground pipe to a city storm sewer instead of surface ditches, access is from adjoining streets instead of along the R-O-W, the catenary is maybe hung from a single pole line between the 2 tracks, and speeds are comparatively low due to curvature, interlockings, etc. See a photo of the Alameda Corridor’s or Las Vegas “trenches” for an example.
25 ft. track centers are not required for new construction - that distance can be less, and often is, such as in urban areas - again, see the Alameda Corridor photos. The principle advantage of 25 ft. centers is that under the current FRA rules, maintenance operations on 1 track need not be halted while a train passes on the other track(s). With trains sometimes on 5 minute headways (see the separate thread on that), MOW would be practically impossible in those circumstances. Further, since most high-speed rail trains run during the day - and rarely at 5 min. intervals - and the MOW is typically done at night, the conflict between those competing needs can be largely avoided by scheduling.
That said, even “back in the day” the R-O-W out in the country was often a minimum of 66 ft. to 100 ft. for even a singl
Okay, if the routes Atlanta - Charlotte and Macon - Charlotte are possible, what’s wrong with Atlanta - Macon? It, too, is a very busy Interstate. Also that would open up the future opportunity of Macon to Savannah, if it becomes necessary. - a.s.
Thanks for the link…interesting document. I believe I will never see any passenger rail initiative of this scope ever come to fruition in north Georgia unless something earth shattering takes place (like a dump truck hauling close to a billion federal dollars shows up at the state capitol). There is zero momentum for any passenger rail service in this area. MARTA expansion gets voted down resoundingly and commuter rail initiatives can’t even get on the ballots. Jamie
[(-D] I’m not even sure the dump truck of money would do it. There was Federal money laying on the table to do the Lovejoy commuter rail line a couple years ago, just waiting to be picked up. All the state had to do was come up with a little bit (relatively) of earnest money. Did it happen? Nope.
But what do you expect from a state where the voters are a product of an education system with a 50% HS graduation rate. (And those that do don’t score very well on standardized tests, either)[D)]