Building high speed line.
Heh, heh, heh, heh!
First, an apology. My snide first reaction to the idea of a high speed line linking Richmond and Norfolk was completely uncalled for, and it demands a much more thoughtful response. The first reaction came from one who used to live in the Commonwealth, and who loves it but is accutely aware of its limitations. I’m thinking of a state whose politicians confuse ordinary run-of-the-mill passenger service with bullet trains and TGVs, assuming that the voters will know no different. Alas, some at this forum do. Then too, this is a state that pumps less bucks into its university system (choose your metric – per faculty member or per student, makes no difference) than any of those around it. So the idea of Virginia FUNDING the kind of train you envision is, at first glance, absolutely ludicrous.
That having been established, your idea, or dream, or whatever else you might term it, if it is viewed in the context of improving and extending the Northeast Corridor, makes decent sense – after the line from DC to Richmond gets electrified. The thought here is that stimulus funds for passenger rail outside the NEC are funds wasted. NEC is where the riders are. In numbers far above those in other areas of the country. To upgrade the NEC, to extend electrification to locales reasonably close to the NEC, so that tidership over the corridor is densed up – this makes reasonably good sense. I’m thinking straighten a few curves between New York and Boston; push Amtrak service out to the middle of Long Island (say Islip); electrify the line from New Haven north through Hartford, Springfield and Worcester to Boston; straighten kinks and electrify NYC to Albany; electrify CC to Richmond and thence the Tidewater (yes, underneath Hampton Roads to Norfolk proper); perhaps extend electrification to Portland, Maine… These proj
Norfolk does seem to be a logical NEC extension. There are two routes and a few options being studied. The one that looks like the most bang for the buck would be through Petersburg, then down the south side of the James River to Chesapeake and Norfolk. NS threw out a figure of around $80M for the route improvement only - 79mph, stations and equipment extra. It’s basically a half dozen or so universal crossovers, signalling and a connection at Petersburg. There is another study out there somewhere for the same route with a total cost for 90-110 mph in the $300M range. The killer for the Peninsula route is either not getting to Norfolk or an outrageously expensive tunnel or bridge. The “south side” option gets you right into Norfolk proper and gives good access to the heavily populated Virginia Beach/Chesapeake area, all for one low, low price. Order now!
Curiously, how well does the connecting bus do between Newport News and Norfolk and Virginia Beach?
The train to Newport News currently goes by downtown Richmond Main Street (Broad St) Station and serves Williamsburg. Presumably, direct service from Virginia Beach and Norfolk would go by way of Petersburg and would get no closer than Staples Road; but a secondary line (xSAL?) from Main Street forms part of the Triple Crossing and reconnects with the A-Line at Chester. The ability to reach the business district makes me wonder whether Staples Road was a mistake.
There is no convenient and existing direct connection between the CSX and NS near Petersburg. The original line through Petersburg, now abandoned, proceeded more directly to the business district to a wye and station at 2nd Street. Existing tracks continue to a connection with the NS at Poe. The current Amtrak Petersburg station on the CSX A-Line is closer to Virginia State University.
The NS Between Petersburg and Lamberts Point passes closest to the Norfolk business district; but has no direct connection to Virginia Beach. Furthermore, the tracks between Norfolk and Virginia Beach seems to be out of service; so one has to ponder the practicality of a separate route.
Would a one-seat ride and a second route would attract significantly more riders than a bus connection? The fastest route from the Amtrak Newport News station to downtown Norfolk at Main & St Paul seems to be via I-664 at 31 minutes for 27.4 miles.
Harvey
“Virginia Beach” encompasses a large area from just east of Norfolk proper to the beach - the boundary is roughly where I-64 hooks around east of Norfolk. It is one of the large suburban areas in the region. The rail line from Norfolk to the beach is now being redeveloped as a light rail line. The Virgina Beach couldn’t get it’s act together fast enough, so the line won’t extend past the county line, at least for now. A station in Chesapeake would be very accessible to folks living in suburban Virgina Beach. They could get there w/o having to drive under or over any water - a big deal in that area. Getting from Newport News to Norfolk proper is not a fun trip. Traffic is nearly always bad. Williamsburg and Newport News are reasonably well served by the existing service. I doubt a line on the south side of the river would siphon off much of the existing traffic. What might make sense would be to increase the frequency from Williamsburg and Newport News by providing bus connections to the new service at Norfolk.
I was an involuntary resident of the Virginia Beach area (actually Ft Story) for the better part of 1964 and 1965. Talk about of tough duty.
Three years ago we started a “tradition” of having our family join us for a week on the Outer Banks. While I drive, some fly in so the Norfolk/Va Beach area becomes an overnight stop. I found a few changes in the 40 years between visits, but I look forward to the run from Richmond to Norfolk about as much as a trip to the dentist.
With the high population of military personnel in the Norfolk area, it seems to me that good frequent train service as an extension of the NEC would produce attractive ridership figures. While I am sure that a good part of the auto traffic on I-64 is from tourists heading to the beach and the other attractions along the pennsula, I’d guess that a good portion comes from military personnel heading “home” on leave or weekend pass. Between that and what I would assume is a high level of business/government travel in and out of the area, train service might be the only option to improving the highway situation. A third lane on I-64 between Richmond and Newport News would probably be doable, but I’d bet that the cost of adding lanes under Hampton Roads would would be frightening.
It will be interesting to see how the Norfolk light rail ridership developes.
Seems you, or the State, are contending that that a bus back-tracking from Norfolk to Newport News and Williamsburg is somehow better than the other way around. Would the existing service be rerouted and expanded or complimented? Are we robbing Peter to pay Paul?
The existing Amtrak route between Newport News and Richmond-Main St is