Hi Folks
Living wrong side of the pond (UK), could do with a bit of info. I’m modeling late steam early diesel and my mate’s into 3rd gen diesels and after. We’d like to know which decade yellow lining started coming in on the roads stateside.
Be in touch.
pick.
Hi, pick,
First, keep this in mind, here in the US each state is in charge of their own local roads, and going back far enough there were only limited national standards - the states set their own standards - 50 different “versions”.
So, typically in the 50’s and before, you would find considerable variation from state to state. BUT, yellow center lines, sometimes single, sometimes double, sometimes broken to allow passing, go back at least to the 40’s and likely before. Some states did use white center lines and that could be seen into the 60’s or later in rural areas.
In the last 30-40 years the double yellow line seperating traffic of opposing direction has gradually become completely universal. White lines are now used only to seperate traffic lanes for the same direction of travel - and we have a lot multi lane highways.
Another important point about older markings, before the 70’s or 80’s it was not common to see the outside edges marked with lines of any color. Rural road or big highways, it was simply not done back then. When that did start happening it was only on high speed, major highways at first. It has only been in recent times that marking the shoulder edges of almost all roads became norm.
Another important note - to this day, a great many residential streets, city, suburban or rural, still have no lines at all, no center line, no edges, no nothing.
So without specific data from a specific region, yellow or white for older eras, two lines or one, without shoulder lines, will look believable for the eras you have mentioned. And leaving smaller local roads completely unmarked will also look very correct.
Sheldon
Actually, this isn’t QUITE true. While each state may or may not have tieir own oddball road marking standards, in general most adhere to the MUTCD standards, first published in 1935, and before that the AASHO standards (started in 1927). Some of those standards are available online:
https://ceprofs.civil.tamu.edu/ghawkins/MUTCD-History.htm
So in GENERAL, for basic road signage and striping standards, look to the MUTCD standards, with added twists for specific regions. And remember that while a standard may have been written in a certain year, it took a while for things to percolate down to reality. Red stop signs became a standard in 1947, but I remember them in rural areas of IL and IN well into the late 1980s.
The first all yellow centerlines I saw in California was in 1965 or 1966. White edges (Fog) lines at the same time. (On a foggy day I mistock the newly painted edgeline for the centerline) Then recent Federal requirements mandated that yelow be used between lanes were traffic travels in opposite directions. .
If you get a chance to see the movie It’s a Mad Mad Mad Mad World (1963), you will see both white and yellow centerlines, so apparently the area where I lived was fairly late in geting the new standard…
I remember seeing white broken centerlines with solid yellow barrier (no passing lines) on some, but not all mountain highways in the early 1950’s (probably 1952). There were no edgelines. There were signs with graphics of the striping telling motorists not to pass when the yellow stripe was on their side of the white line. When both directions were no passing the configuration was solid yellow, broken white, solid yellow.
I have seen color photos from the 50’s and earlier were some striping in urban areas of California and some other states (not necessairly centerlines) appears to be yellow. .
A County road near Oroville California still had a broken white centerline when I was last on it about 5 years ago. Still visible after the 40+ years when it was last painted. It is a lightly travelled road, but still they must of had more durable traffic paint in those days.
Hi Folks,
Thanks for the info.
John & I are building a layout predicting a small riverside community way out in the stick(sort of) which runs a carfloat service to the other side. The eara from anything from the early 50s to the 90s so I reckon white lines where needed at major junctoins and grade crossings will do.
Anyway, it’s us whose building it, an I’m boss, the rivet counter’s can go play somewhere else. These forums really come in handy at times like this and thanks for your replies. I’ll be back.
Be in touch.
pick.
Don’t be a hater Pickles. Nobody called you a vestie or tin plater, so don’t start lambasting proto modelers.
Hi Ray,
Don’t hate nobody mate, last paragraph was a joke and I appreciate all the above help given.
pick.
Ray, where did this come from? I surely did not take John’s comment in that way, any more than I took any offense to the info you added to my comments. Which if fact supported everything I said, I simply left out the link to the long history lesson about how the standards did evolve.
I’m just a tender 55 years old, but I remember lots of white center lines, a few yellow stop signs, and few to no shoulder marking lines even when I started driving in 1973 around various rural areas here in the Mid Atlantic.
As for rivet counting, I tried it once and found it to be no fun. I’m a protolancer, and I like things to be resonably accurate but more importantly to give a realistic, believable overall impression.
And my notion of a “rivet counter” as a negative connotation, is someone who is constantly pointing out the the “flaws” is the model work of others, not someone who sets high standards for their own work.
You may find my standards too low for you, or you may find them confusing, but they work for me as I’m sure yours work for you. I think that is all John was saying.
Here are a few examples:
A lightly weathered Athearn Blue Box boxcar kit, is often close enough for me, but passenger cars with gaps between diaphragms are completely unacceptable on my railroad.
My minimum radius is 36", and most curves on the layout are much bigger, but I run mostly selectively compressed 70’ passenger cars for a more realistic appearance on those curves. Yet I know some modelers who will not tollerate “freelanced”, “selectively compressed”, passenger cars yet they willingly run their “perfect” 85’ passenger cars around 30" curves with two foot scale gaps between the diaphragms. That spoils the effect for me.
This is a hobby full of compromis
Hi Sheldon
Ye man, I’m right behind you, on same track but knocking 70 and knackered.
Boy wish we had your curves mate. Our min. rad. has to be 20ins as Shelly’s Landing is a small protable (16 x 8ft) layout we are hoping to take to local shows round the nothern counties, here in England.
One of our non affiliated members(he models the British Midland Railway Co) started asking stupid questions, you know what they are like. He wanted to know what road lining we were doing white or yellow, I politley told him to sod off( that’s allowed over here) John gave me one of them funny looks, I’d know I’d idea either and that is how this thread started.
A rivet counter over here is usually a joker who thinks he’s the life and sole of a club, with a sence of humour but he soon gets sorted, who then becomes goldmine on details. Trouble is our’s knows nowt about US protortype so to John and myself is a compltete waste of space.
No sweat Ray.
Be in touch.
pick. = coss the’re 4 John’s on the club role
White lines were the standard in the US until 1971. Then the national government safety standard was yellow and the law was all roads in the US to have yellow markings by 1974. Most were completed and changed to yellow by 1973. Never had white lines on the sides of the roads until that time. On major roads reflectors on the sides were used for fog and deep snow. I grew up in that era born in 1944. So I never saw a yellow line in NJ until 1971 and then it was a mix of different lines as they were experimenting with it. See WIKI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_surface_marking.
Also on some layouts I’ve observed for the Steam and Transition era there are dark black macadam roads. That didn’t happen until the 70’s also. As far as road surface for those era’s they used oil and gravel stone, just stone, concrete, cobble stone or dirt. The stone and oil surface turned light gray after seasoned by weather. Jim
Jim, not to be argumentitive here, but there was no “National Standard” inforced by anyone before the 70’s.
As pointed out earlier, there were “standards” propagated by private assocations, which many States did follow, or followed somewhat with their own “interprations” or variations. But there was never, back before the 70’s, one universal law of the land on this issue.
As for black macadam paving, I remember lots of it here in Maryland way before I was driving age - 1973 - I do also remember lots of tar and chip, sectional placed concrete, etc. Yes it would grey out after while, but so do todays modern pavings.
The other factor brushed over in this conversation is that even when “standards” are set/adopted, it often takes decades for every road to be brought into compliance. That is historicly true of every “phase” of “standardization”, so while a given State may hav
Sheldon I do stand corrected on the issue of “white lines being the government standard” you are correct it was whatever states chose. You’re not flaming me, no argument on my part. But I never saw a macadam road until approximately 1971 also. Geez where I live now in West Virginia I read homes for sale with statements like 1 mile to blacktop. Still plenty of dirt roads up in the mountains and not far from the City of Elkins. And not to turn this great site into a political football you are 100% correct in you view and mine as “Big Brother” being intrusive, we agree on most points! Jim
In the post 1971 era, a solid line or a double solid line means you may not cross it. A dotted line means you may cross it. A double line, one solid and one dotted means you may change lanes from the dotted side but not from the solid side. A double dotted white line means that the lane is about to end and it will change to a solid and dotted double line before the end with the dotted side going away.
Yellow means that traffic on the other side of the line is going in the opposite direction, white means it is going in the same direction. The only time you should ever see a yellow line to your right is on a multi lane road where traffic lane direction is changeable and/or controlled by electronic signals.
Standardization increases safety. Travelers should not have to wonder what the markings mean it this particular jurisdiction.
Going back to the OP question ans summarizing the answers:
Tthe correct answer is that for the steam diesel transition era it depends on where in the country the locate their model railroad but the most likely answer is white.
By the mid 1970’s centerlines should be yellow and there should be white edgelines.
My opinion: Prior to the 1970’s, and without evidence of the use of yellow in the area chosen, the centerlines should be white and that there should be no edge lines. I base this on my memory of the time and on review of color photos from aeound the country in books that I own.
I do know that California standardized yellow in the mid 1960’s and it took years to paint all the roads.
A movie made in southern California and released in 1963, shows both colors.