Every once in awhile when I go on the CTT forum there is talk about someone trying to do an O guage railroad outside like the garden railroad people do. It got me thinking, has anyone here ever thought about or tried to do HO or N scale outdoors? I think I remember someone from Britain writing a letter to the editor in MR stating he had built one. Is it possible or just a dumb idea?
Bruce
I would think that with small scales, even low wind speeds could be a big problem.
I guess I would be afraid of moisture in the track from rain, snow, morning dew etc. Anyone know how the garden rr people handle those issues?
This is a topic that crops up every few months here. Yes, it has been done in Great Britain using Peco track, which is made in England. Peco track is more weatherproof and sunproof than Atlas or any of the more common brands sold in the US. I think they are also elevated above ground level. Imagine what would happen if your locomotive ran over an ant or a larger creepy-crawley.
If you want to try HO outdoors and would like to see what can happen to it in a short period of time, just put a piece of flex track and a cheap boxcar outdoors for a couple of weeks and see what’s left of them after that time.
Keeping HO track clean outdoors would be nearly impossible. Forget about N scale outdoors except perhaps on a portable layout that can be taken indoors every night.
We have an open house at our club twice annually in May and November, and always set up HO and N scale outdoor modular layout displays. For the past two years we have had problems with the wind blowing trains off of the track.
Go to the garden forum next door and search for “HO in the garden” and you will see a number of threads on the subject. Bottom line is that yes, it can be done and has been done well before. Is it worth doing? IMHO no, the technical problems are too daunting. It’s orders of magnitude better to purchase proper garden G scale equipment (USA Trains, Hartland, LGB, B’mann etc) and do it properly and with much lower maintenance and overall headaches.
Outdoors nature is very cruel and unrelenting. My G scale Dixie D Short Line has been through a number of hurricanes, flooding, sun, snow and small children without damage. I use brass code 332 rail (you can stand on or drive over without hurting) on top of a brick roadbed. Even so, I have to prune back vegitation with clippers and weed whackers, clean off bird poop, leaves and bugs and small animals (living and dead) to keep the trains running. Imagine the above conditions with your average HO scale Kato engine and Walther’s box cars to get a mental image of how overwhelming it is to have HO outside.
It has been done, difficult and very demanding to do, but just because it has been done doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. I encourage you to try if you really want to, you may like it and advance the hobby into a new frontier.
Mostly we ignore those issues. The G scale equipment and track we use is designed and built for these conditions so there are hardly ever any problems. Some G scalers use RC battery power, some use RC live steam, and some use standard track power in both DC and DCC. Only DCC has some issues with moisture on the rails affecting the trains for obvious reasons. The rest of the control systems chug along rain or shine no prob. I went to Reno for a week one time and left my 4-6-0 running on the track (Wireless Aristo Train Engineer w/10 Amp power supply, brass code 332 track), it was still running just fine when I got home, even after being rained on several times. Try that with HO.
For a short time after I moved into my present home I considered building a 1:80 scale railroad in the back yard. After careful consideration I came up with the following balance sheet:
PRO:
CON:
After weighing the options, I retreated to the garage.
(Note that mosture was not mentioned. In the dessicated desert, WHAT moisture?)
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Bruce - it has ben done. I had the honor of visiting (and operating) Brian Burchell and his amazing OO scale outdoor layout in the UK while on business back in the 80s. He used conventional models and power. Not sure of the track brand used, but like the larger scales it has to include UV sablized plastics.
Interestingly except for the power supply and the engines everything else was outside. Overnite cars/trains where store in a garden ‘hutch’ of some sort. Track work was secured to wood ‘sleepers’ embeded in concrete. While switching was rare - it basically ran scheduled trains - it was a fascinating operation. It could run in a light drizzle and he even had film of operating snow plows!
I believe there was an article about his RR year ago in one of the narional model railroad mag’s - I just forget which one.
Today there is even the option of using HO scale live steam ( a few models do exist on the market).
Charles
See “Outdoor HO? Why Not” by James Sherrad, page 42, Sept 1964 MR.
Have fun
It would be very interesting to see a follow-up article today showing how well that layout held up under the elements and to read comments from the original author on problems he encountered; but considering the date of that issue being over 40 years ago I doubt that anything still exists.
I am a garden railroader so maybe I can help. G scale trains are built to be outdoors i.e. UV reistant paint, etc. The locomotives motors are built with protective casings to protect it from the elements i.e. rain and snow. The track is made a of heavier and more durable metals like brass and stainless steel. Usually in Code 332 or code 250.
There have have been successful O and HO garden railroads, mostly in the UK. We do have one fellow on the Garden Railroad forum who has O gauge for his Garden Railroad. I would say you could do HO outside, but use Peco track, and don’t lay it on the ground, put it up on a table, much like a layout inside. This will prevent your track, from literally being crushed, and your locomotives will thank you because there won’t be little critters and moisture getting into their motors.
So basically yes it can be done, because it has been done before. But I would recommend a test track to see if HO outdoors would work in your climate. Although I do think it would be more pratical that is you were going to build an outdoor railroad, to use the larger trains. Off hand though I would say go for it.
If you need more information, let me know I would be glad to help. [:D]
Considering that the pike was mounted on a shelf attached to a fence, it is probablly gone. The posts would probably rot out in any climinate. It was covered with plastic sheeting when not in use, another material with a limited life span. On the other hand, it was in California where the weather is not too severe.
Have fun
BTW. Probably the key point was mounting to pike on a fence, not at ground level.
Amen to the above. I have HO in the basement and a garden railroad outdoors. The garden railroad has been in place since 1989 with some modifications of course. Indoor plastic structures will not stand up to the sun very long. Rot is a problem with wood structures.
operating problems abound in G, but they are manageable, I wouldn’t even consider HO outdoors on my worst day. I lay my track on a bed of small gravel, six inches deep. My track is Llagas Creek aluminum with #6 and #8 switches. My control system is radio/b
If it was the only way, I would do it and solve the problems. But first I would consider a larger scale or a garden shed.
Enjoy
Paul
Here is a youtube video of an HO or OO gauge outdoor layout. It is mounted on a fence off the ground. So it is possible. Down on the ground and through the plants would be much more difficult.
T-Jack, was that a Bachmann Annie? I never thought they’d be able to take that kind of abuse.
Yes, it is an Annie. They can take quite a bit of punishment if you do routine maintenance. The Annies have several incarnations (generation I to IV I think) and some are crap like the RC version. A generation III or IV are as good or better than anything else on the market. Yeah I know, plastic side rods yada yada, but you can upgrade, the kits are available. Mine is mostly stock, I’ve repainted it for my RR and added some weight for better trackability, but that’s about it really. I’ve had it in daily service for 7 years.
Yes you can have HO in the garden, We built one nearly 20 years ago in my fathers garden and he still runs it now. The trackbed needs to very level ours was built with a brick base with 12mm plywood (soaked in preservative) on top then covered in roofing felt to represent ballast and prolong the life of the wood.
The Track, Peco, is still the original but the plywood had to be replaced between 10 to 15 years after it was installed as some areas rotted quicker than others. You do need to sweep up twigs and leaves before running and remove bird droppings, snails etc though.
We found point motors un reliable and stuck with manually operated ones.
I moved up to G scale as it’s less prone to derailments by wildlife or overhanging plants and the Stock is waterproof as well as the track. If you have room outside and want real long trains it’s worth considering if the prevailing weather will give you plenty of time to enjoy it.
I like the idea. I’ve heard of it done before, but you would want to store your trains inside, and you would want O or maybe HO; I don’t think N scale would work.
I apologise for the poor quality but I downloaded the pics off a VHS video that’s 15 years old.
This is my fathers HO garden railway that’s a dogbone curving round the garden giving a loop of about 150 feet run.
This show the basic construction, bricks, plywood covered in roofing felt and then track.
Pennsy K4 approaching the bridge with the main station in the background.
Two British InterCity trains at the main station.
