I’ll show you how to do a dual gauge coupler install in a moment. First some background on my layout’s dual gauge track. Then I’ll discuss available track and products to help you get going with dual gauge. I’ll add more thoughts on planning and operating dual gauge lines after that as I get a chance.
With all the interest in HOn3 stirred up by Blackstone’s marvelous line of RTR narrowgauge, more people than ever are planning on how to work narrowgauge into their layout plans. In the pre-Blackstone days, many were said to include an interchange with a standard gauge line as a way budding narrowgaugers could ensure they had something that actually ran while fiddling with the 3 foot line. With Blackstone, there’s no need to do that, of course, but modeling a standard gauge/narrowgauge junction and transfer point is still an attractive theme.
On my layout, narrowgauge dominates. I added Rio Grande standard gauge, it is true, to have something running. But it’s also the case that modeling Colorado narrowgauge makes such a junction theme tempting. In a few cases, there was just a simple cross-platform transfer at the break in gauge. But in Colorado, because the Rio Grande was dominant and operated both SG and NG lines, it was very common to see dual gauge track in use. This sort of track is just so visually interesting it’s very tempting to model.
I would have liked to include Alamosa and it’s extensive dual gauge yards. But there just wasn’t room to do that and do justice to my desire to model the Silverton Branch and the three “little lines” Otto Mears built from there up to the mines. Hold the presses, I had a great idea.
If you know your history, Durango actually WAS dual gauge for a brief time. To counter a potential Southern Pacific intrusion onto its turf, the Rio Grande built a standard gauge line south from Durango to Farmington, NM. All the SG locos, rolling stock, etc were imported in across Cumbres Pass, a line which was also
Yeah, what is the world coming to when we start discussing modeling, instead of wasting time on pricewhining or the NMRA-ate-my-layout threads?[(-D]
I’ve posted this pic before, but decided to re-document it here. If the Atlas is too rich for your blood, then use a Bachmann 44-tonner. I had to fabricate a mount out of plastic for it, but still a fairly simple install. One issue that came up with it you do have to watch is having enough clearance behind the end beam so you modified couplers don’t interfere with the truck. For this model, I extended the end beams a little over a foot to deal with that, but she still looks good.
OK, lets start with a dual gauge track primer, because this can get confusing – I know.The only RTR dual-gauge HO/HOn3 track components are made by Shinohara. These are good, reliable turnouts, although not cheap. They are code 70 rail. Nothing dual gauge is cheap, BTW. They suffer from a bit of sloppy tolerances in the frogs – every dual gauge turnouts has three frogs – causing a slight bobble when rolling stock passes through.
Beyond that, it’s either custom builders or build your own. FastTracks does make dual gauge jigs.
Track itself is pretty limited, all code 70 AFAIK. Shinohara has dual-gauge track in HO/HOn3. I prefer Mirco-Engineering track myself. Not sure about any others.
Instead of just right and left turnouts, dual gauge has 4 types, 2 right and 2 left. This is to account for which side the common rail is on. Pictures do it better than words. Note the notation of II_I, etc shows how the rails are arranged when looking from the single track end at the points.
You have written an impressive ng/sg primer. This is the kind of dedication to detailed information that makes this forum such a great resource. Thanks for sharing, looking forward to the next installment.
Thanks to everyone for their kind comments! More is coming on this topic as I get a chance.
Chuck,
Have you looked into jewelry?[:)] Maybe some of those tiny chain links could work for the links. Not sot sure what you’ll do for the pins though.[:P]
A note on the coupler install. I used a 00-80 to also mount the MT 1015 couplers, which come supplied with 00-90 screws. Use a #53 drill to open up the center mounting hole and the 00-80 screws work fine and do a bit better job keeping the draft gear straight.
OK, here are a few more tips and pics.
Crossings between HOn3 and HO come in handy, but you have to build them yourself. I used on at the south end of the Durango station tracks. It let’s the NG main continue, while allowing SG access to that end of the yard. You can do three-rail crossings, but the tolerances get really tight. My point is to not be afraid of building a special piece of trackwork or two to make your dual-gauge plan work. This is the first piece of handlaid trackwork I ever did, a little ugly but works fine. You can see where I ended the NG rail just short of the crossing to work as a yard lead as far as possible.
Other pieces of special trackwork can be modified into existence. I used a dual gauge turnout to make a NG-only turnout. I removed the SG point and cleaned up some of the superfluous rail to make it.
It should be noted that this is the expensive way to do this, since you have to hack a dual-gauge switch. These sort of one-gauge diversion can, in many cases, be built so there is no point required. If the guardrails are properly placed with close tolerances, that will save you the money for the switch machine, too.
As a note to myself, here are some future topics I’ll cover
I think I was less than clear. What I want with the link and pin is automatic coupling/uncoupling (Yeah, right!) A cut-off sewing pin would do for a pin, and that fine chain would keep it from wandering off. The coupling links are NOT small - more like fishing boat anchor chain.
My screen saver is a 762mm gauge Kurobe Gorge Railway Bo-Bo steeplecab - with its tongue hanging out! Link and pin, new 1970…
You know on real dual-gauge terminals, they just lined up the 4-rail turntable with the 3-rail incoming tracks and ignored the slight kink…
There was an article a few years ago in MR that talked about a dual-gauge terminal and mentioned this fact. The article suggested doing the same thing as the prototype, and just aligning the tracks that you need, whether narrow gauge or standard.
Very nice dual gauge modeling! You’ve almost convinced me to give up the Pennsy, and I’m a real SPF (slobbering Pennsy fan).
I think what’s needed is a small robot brakeman to walk over and pull the pins, as well as set them. [8-|]
S&S,
Hmmm, that could work with the TT, but I’d bet it doesn’t work as well with the model as with 1:1. Anyone remember the date of that article? It would be a good addition to note it in this thread.
You don’t have to give up the Pennsy to have dual gauge. There’s the EBT connection, for sure, and might be others. There was a lot of NG in Penn. at one time, although I’m not certain how much dual gauge beyond the EBT.
OK, lets talk about transfer, the essential process needed to get cargo – and sometimes people – from one mode to the other. People, you say? Yep, they usually are able to transfer themselves from the NG to the SG train and vice versa.
Walking transfers also occur at stockyards, like the case here.
It’s also the case the the stockyards feed another transfer type, from break of gauge production stops. The cattle or sheep come in on the NG, but ride out as swinging sides after a stroll across the killing floor at the packing plant. Here are a couple of more examples. The refinery receives crude oil off the NG and ships refined products to both SG and NG
The smelter receives ore, concentrates and inputs from both SG and NG and ships semi-refined concentrates for further processing via the SG.
I had the itch to do something with my last pair of 1015 couplers, so starting sizing up other diesels for possible conversion. None are as easy as the H15-44 was. There’s a Walthers H10-44 and an Atlas S-2 that are doable, but both will be more work than the H15-44. Atlas Geeps, Atlas RS-3s, P2K Geeps and P2K SDs will be pretty big projects. My SD-45s and Tunnel Motors are doable, but would be a bit unbelievable.
The H15-44 is actually a nice size for this service, wasn’t MU-able, and was kind of off the beaten path in Utah for the most part, so makes an ideal candidate for this imagimodification[Y] Be nice to have a backup for when it’s in for service. Poor little #39 is not exactly a road engine.
There’s one more type of special work I’ve done. It gives a narrowgauge from dual gauge divergence. It also doesn’t start with an expensive dual-gauge switch, but with a NG turnout. I carefully cut out the rail and ties from a piece of dual gauge track, fitting the NG turnout into it. This came out really well when I added a NG-only siding on the backside of Durango station to handle additional trains.
I’d model the EBT, but the dual-gauge between EBT and the Pennsy wasn’t all that extensive, and their certainly wasn’t much of the really interesting (pain in the rear) trackage that was seen out west with the Rio Grande.
Late comer to this excellent thread, please keep it coming. Your conclusion about Blackstones offerings are on target as far as my future modeling ambitions are concerned. The C19 Connie has always been a favorite of mine. If you remember the late Wolfgang Dudler, he also delved into NG with the Blackstone releases.
January 2010 Model Railroader - “Dual-gauge HO Track Plan”
Page 61 - “The three-rail dual-gauge track leading to the engine terminal ends at a four-rail turntable. This was done on the prototype, and the slight misalignment apparently has no ill effects and works just fine.”
It’s actually a lot like my first concept. The SG send load in and take the NG stuff out, with some local switching at the transfer point. Then I thought that seemed too confining and decided to shoehorn in more line by double-decking things in part. That gave me some dual gauge line to work with a wayfreight.
That turntable thing is interesting. It very well could work just fine. Not sure he’s actually tested it or not. I’m leery of light front trucks on steamers or a Goose being able to negotiate it. Having a NG TT with a very good drive (DS with New York Railway Supply drive), it’s not always a piece of cake even when not trying to mix gauges on it. Maybe someone has given it a try and can let us know how it works? The NYRS drive would be ideal to work a TT set up like this, assuming the mechanical side of it worked fine. It can do multiple locations at very precise spots, so would the the best way to run one. You could program in a NG and a SG position for each stall.
BTW, the article has a nice diagram for a point-less divergence of HOn3 from HO SG.
Geared Steam,
I’ve got more, so will keep chipping away at things as I get a chance.
Those C-19s look positively puny next to a Tunnel Motor…[:D]
After looking over the track plan, I had a couple of more comments. One thing that would be great to add is a siding to hold inbound and outbound cars on the standard gauge side of things. It could go where the mainline loops around the end of the peninsula after leaving Fiddletown or as another siding where the SG tracks go between the freight house and the ore transfer tipple. As with my layout originally, there’s not a lot to do on the SG except switch Fiddletown or cruise by it on the way to somewhere else. Consideration might be given to double-decking part of the SG track and incorporating more towns and industries to add to the operating fun on the SG.
The topic this time is dual gauge idler cars. Don’t confuse these with the other, narrowgauge idler cars that were used in between pipe gons on the pipe trains. There’s actually a short thread on the dual gauge idler cars already here, started by narrow gauge nuclear:
Chuck/tomikawaTT had a great comment there I’ll quote on the reason these were usually standard gauge cars, even though they could couple to either gauge.
Chuck wrote:
A little logic shows why it makes more sense to have the transition car on standard gauge trucks:
There would be no need to run it where there was no standard gauge rail.
The wider gauge makes for a more stable platform.
A single design meets all requirements.
The standard gauge coupler is always centered. Moving a narrow gauge coupler from one pocket to the other would be a lot quicker and easier than sorting cars of different dimensions.
Chuck alluded to another issue, which is the need to have coupler height at SG means that trying to tack SG draft gear onto a NG height car is mechanically problematic. Just like with building a model of one, it’s easier for the proto
As I recall from the article, the author was building the layout at the time. My quote says that it “works just fine”, so I would assume that means that the engine terminal area was built and he had already tested the turntable.
The indexing for standard and narrow gauge sounds really neat! Just be sure to get an uninterruptable power supply because I heard that when power is cut to a DCC turntable, the indexing is lost. Sounds like a really dumb way to build a product to me.
Perhaps some old-style indexing would work better usin
Actually, the NYRS drive doesn’t mind a power interruption at all. When powered back up, it goes through a brief status check, moving the bridge slightly either way from where it was positioned when shut down, then is ready to go.
The stepper motor drive is very precise and much easier to set up than any sensor based system.
Mike,
I finally had some time to really go through this thread & follow it.
I think you are doing an incredible job, & really want to thank you for sharing it with everyone!!!
I would also like to make an idler car from a JV Models Flat Car, with Dual Gauge capability.
I really liked what you did with the Locomotive aspect, as I was completely focused on the idler flat.
Also, I was overjoyed with your solution to the NG Divergance Turnout, which is the ‘missing link’ in DG trackwork!!!
Again, a very BIG Thanks Mike, you really cover &, share the subject very well in an informative & helpful way.
Glad to be of service. Seemed like a neglected area of potential growing interest and, well, I’ve got the examples handy in the layout room.[A]
I’ll keep trying to find that pic that’s somewhere on this computer that shows a SG flat converted to a dual-gauge idler.
Inspired by the prospect of setting up a shot with it and a C-19, the old with the new motive power, I finally got around to detailing the pilot on my lead Tunnel Motor so it would be, ahem, presentable for the photo session.[:)]
