I’m always surprised how costly HO logging cars can be for their small size. I’m building a small logging railway (4’ x 5’) and have a Barnhart crane. However, with IHC disappearance. Barnhart compatible cars are difficult to get. For a time, I was interested in the Keystone version but without truck and coupler, they seems to be over priced. Making an interesting train (6-8 cars is going to be rather expensive for the overall look).
Is there some other alternatives available on the market? By the way, the prototype I use for inspiration (Thurso Nation Valley Railway) didn’t used squeleton cars, but used a Barnhart crane. I don’t mind kitbashing of scratchbuilding if necessary.
Availability affects price, and with Keystone Locomotive Works long out of business, items from them are getting a little hard to find as well as being a little pricey. The Keystone log buggies were patterned after a Grasse River prototype.
Although most of my log cars are the Keystone variety, there were a large number of (especially Eastern) logging operations that just utilized flat cars for log loading. Most of the photos that you will find of Cass, WV, for example, show loads on flat cars. All that is needed is some relatively short flat cars and then you can add the “tracks” for the Barnhart atop the deck. I have modifed several flat cars by just glueing scale timbers (about 4" by 4" or so) to the deck of flat cars in the proper gauge for the Barnhart. [Keystone’s Barnhart has a gauge of just over 6’, but I think that the IHC Barnhart is closer to standard gauge 4’ 8 1/2 ".]
I have used wood kit flatcars: Scotia Scale Models #8302 is a 36’ flat car
Also, MDC/Roundhouse used to offer 3-pack kits of 30’ flat cars that would be quite suitable for this. These represent fairly heavy duty steel frame/wood deck flat cars, but their short length still results in an appropriate “look” with other smaller logging equipment. The decks of flats in log service need to be well-weathered.
I am not aware of any completely inexpensive options, but short flat cars may be a start.
You’re right, the eastern prototype I’ve studied used old truss-rod flat cars about 26’ long. Installing the barnhart rail on top of them sounds like a good alternative too me. I already have a couple of MDC flat cars on my pile, I’ll take a look at what I can go with it. Thanks for the clue. Anyway, HO finding truss-rod flat cars kits are easier to find than barnhart compatible rolling stock made by defunct companies…
As Bill mentioned, MDC/Roundhouse had a log car seen here. These are out of production but can be readily found on Ebay for around 15.00 a box (3 per box) They are a kit but simple to assemble. They are not quite as “spindly” as the Kadee or Keystone cars, but like you, I didn’t want to pay that much for a very simple car.
The log bunk cars shown by Geared Steam’s photos are distinct from the flat cars I mentioned. Those MDC log bunk cars are actually the frames for the MDC 26-foot old-timer tank car kits. The one place on the bottom of the frame is there for mounting the air brake reservour. Definately durable construction on those.
It seems that there are always prototypes for most anything, but I don’t know of many Eastern logging companies that used all-metal frame log bunk cars, and I never bought any of those. The timber in the east tended to be smaller diameter than found out west, and “shorty” log buggies (like the Keystone kits) or flat cars were prevalent.
Costly logging cars? expensive kits? Logging cars are probably the easiest car to make in MR. There are plenty of diagrams around and the construction is very simple.
If you need inexpensive logging cars, I’ve seen many at train shows a number of times, and I’m sure they’re on eBay too. I have a set of Kadee skeleton log cars and their logging caboose, and their quality as 1/2 of a step below brass. If want Kadee but are concerned about the price, they sell disconnected logging trucks that you can put your own logs on. The caboose rides on one of these trucks, and it’s a very smooth roller (and they’re sprung![:D]).
Actually, Keystone is still in business. They just made another run of their 20-ton Shay kits, and I got one as a Christmas gift this year. You can watch as I build it with NWSL’s powering kit (also available again) in my progress topic.[:D]
You mean like a lot of real logging operations used to do, these guys made a pile of their own equipment and bought tons of used rolling stock from railroads.
Regardless, if you’re using a Barnhart crane, the log cars need to accommodate rails so the crane can move from car to car as it loads. Placing rails on flat cars is the simplest solution. You don’t have to use shorty cars. Although the Barnhart won’t accommodate long logs, two separate stacks of logs can be placed on each longer car. I recall seeing prototype pictures of this.
Keystone is not out of business. While they were very slow to deliver (or not deliver) for several years due to the health of the owner, they are now meeting orders for their products.
It’s not a matter of complaining about prices. I’m pretty sure the Keystone cars are worth their price. However, when I have to assemble a complete float of a quite simple car prototype, I think it’s worth searching for alternatives than spending money in something I can myself. I prefer to put the budget on an excellent locomotive instead. At first I thought barnhart crane could only work on special squeleton cars. Seeing it on flat makes it more interesting because the cars can be assigned to other jobs on the road like moving equipment, trucks, skidder, etc.
Thanks for mentionning the Cass railway. Didn’t know about Cass and looking for it, I found the ERC&L .This railway is a pure source of inspiration… and it very similar to my own prototype.
An image is worth a thousand words they say. Rail on top of flat car, just exactly like my prototype. I’ll go with that.
Darth: Yes, those cars are so simple to build that I prefer to make them myself.You see, I like the way logging railways were ingenious and had a sense of autarcy. When they face a problem, they always find a innovative solution. For example, I’m actually building a skewed wood warren-truss bridge for the layout. I read about it and designed a real bridge with all the members. I took a 2x4 beam (the real thing) and cut it in numerous scale lumbers. It cost almost nothing, except for the scale nut-bolt-washer, and I may assure you the bridge is gonna be sturdy one!
BTW, nice work on your shay. I’m always impressed when I see people building shay. Maybe someday I’ll try it
That’s an fantastic bridge, Matt. Keep up the good work. Like you I’m going to build log cars. I actually have a description of ones used in our area of Vancouver Island. They are going to be easy to build and detail. [:)]
That trestle is incredible, UK. How long did it take you to make it?
My apology to Keystone! I had not noticed any ads and most of their items that I had seen at shows seemed to be from the old runs. I just did a bit of on-line checking and found a wide range of Keystone’s detail parts and many of their kits available. The log buggies kit, which creates two cars, has a MSRP around $17.00. It is good to have that line of detail parts more completely available again. Certainly a situation where I didn’t mind being corrected, as they have a nice line of items.
Oh… if Keystone cars came in two-cars package, the price is far more interesting.
Grampy1: The bridge was/is a straight forward project. The deadline is wednesday because without it, the layout can’t continue. I started last friday by taking an hour to determine the complex geometry on the layout (skewed by 36 degree). On Saturday, I read and searched a lot about skewed bridges and warren-truss to get the design right. The plans on AutoCAD were drawn to scale in about 2 hours. Sunday, I cut the scale lumber and stained them with an alcohol and cheap acrylic paint mixture and assembled the trusses yesterday evening. Tonight, I’m gonna build up the deck and stringers. The bridge track will be Central Valley decking scavenged from a plate bridge. I prepared the nut-bolt-washed holes prior to building. All in all, it should take about 20 hours to build the bridge and abutment. For the abutment, I’ll probably build wood cages filled with rubbles and stones (not sure if I got the right word for that!)… I don’t think a trestle-like abutment would look good there, they didn’t exist in my area.
Honestly, working in an architecture firm is a blessing. When comes the time to scratchbuild a project, it makes thing easier to work on the fitting and overall appearance of the finish product. Without a good CAD prototype, this complexe bridge would have been a headache to design and built. When everything is printed, you just concentrated yourself in making the part, not fitting endlessly them. I already made a gallow turntable this way and loved the result.
I almost completed the wood bridge yesterday and test-fitted it on the layout. A perfect fit!
Jusst need to put the nuts and lay the track on bridge ties.
An a general view of the layout… From left to right, the granite quarry siding with a temporary crusher (!) switched by the GE-44, the branchline to the logging spur and the yard in the valley (if you can call a yard a passing track with a siding to a lumber mill!!!) with #21 waiting order at the freight depot.
Jusst need to put the nuts and lay the track on bridge ties.
