HO Scale Broadway Limited 4-6-4 Hudson

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Hello everyone!

Christmas is coming up and I’m looking at getting a new engine for my layout. As the title says, I’m looking at the BLI 4-6-4 Hudson. I need to know if it can handle my layout without derailing on the curves.

My 2 mainlines consist of 26" and 22" curves. The innermost circle has 18" curves. The layout is 5x9 with simple ovals connected by crossovers.

The engine selection is honestly a 3 way tie among the Hudson, the Niagara, and the 4-8-4 Reading Railroad engine (all BLI engines), but the Hudson is in the lead a little bit simply because I think it is the only one of the three that can handle 22" curves easily.

If anyone has any information on any of these engines, please let me know. Thanks!

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From the BLI web site:

  1. Hudson, “Recommended Minimum Radius: 18 inches for regular tender / 22 inches for PT-4 Tender”

  2. Niagra, Recommended Minimum Radius: 22 inches"

  3. Reading 4-8-4, “Recommended Minimum Radius: 18 inches”

I always like to add at least 2" to the manufactures recommended radius.

3

I have the BLI 4-6-4 Hudson, the original Paragon version.

On my prior layout, the curves were 22" and 24" radius. The Hudson had no problems with that radius.

On my current layout, the curves are 30" and 32" with an occasional 28" radius, no problems whatsoever.

I don’t know about 18" radius because I have never tried it, but my sense is that the 4-6-4 could handle it at slower speeds.

As far as the Niagra and the Northern are concerned, the 4-8-4 wheel configuration is more of a challenge on tight radius curves.

I have a BLI 4-8-4 that I also ran on 22" and 24" radius curves without any serious problems, but I would think that you are asking for trouble on the 18" radius curves.

Get the BLI 4-6-4 Hudson.

Rich

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Another factor consider may be how far the crossovers are from the curves and if you are using Atlas snap track for the switches or Atlas custom line, or whatever, as the geometry of the switches vary greatley. You take a pair of Snap switches right after one of the 18 inch curves and even the Hudson may not make it any speed. I have no trouble with my BLI Niagra on my #6 crossovers nor does my BLI Hudson. I do not think either of them would negotiate an Atlas snap switch Crossover, but you never know until someone tries.

Paul

Dayton and Mad River RR

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I have all 3. Though the Niigata is a Blue Line, it handle the 18’s with no problem. The Hudson is

also a good runner. Oh but that T-1. What a crapper. It was a dog. I got a lemon with that one.

Joe C

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My advice, having owned the original Paragon J1d and now the lastest Paragon 2 J1e issued just a few months back, is to get the Hudson. You will be just fine with curves down to 18" and probably an inch tighter, provided you didn’t try to run it through that kind of curve at Broadway Limited speed out on the main.

I have the original Paragon Niagara and now the lastest one out recently. They are just fine on the rated minimum curve of 22", and you could possibly get away with about 20.5" if they are truly pristine and have easements on either end…maybe.

The Reading Northern Type should be about the same as the Niagara, but if BLI sez good down to 18", then that’ll be what you get. I would NOT dream of a large-diameter eight-coupled steamer going around a 17" curve and being happy about it. Those 18" curve minimums will have to be very well laid if you want the locos to run through them at scale speeds above 40 mph.

Once you manage to get your minimums in the 24" range, you’ll have no problems with any plastic or diecast locomotive that I know of. Long passenger cars will want 26" or better if they have somewhat stiff diaphragms. Brass would be something else entirely…generally 30" minimums.

As for #6 crossovers and double-crossovers, their points rail radius is well above 35" radius. My brass, fully flanged Sunset brass 2-10-4 has no trouble with my Walthers #6 double-C.

-Crandell

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Thank you guys so much for your input. If you have any videos or pictures of your layouts I would love to see them with the mentioned engines on them :slight_smile: The competition has come down to the 4-8-4 Reading and the 4-6-4 Hudson. I think that the Niagara is just a little too big of a risk to run on my curves.

To answer one of the questions, my crossovers go into 22" curves and into 26" curves. I don’t run my bigger engines on the 18" curves unless I absolutely have to. The largest engine that I have are an AC 4400 (for diesel) and a 4-6-2 Pacific and 2-8-4 Berkshire. The pacific handles the 18" curves like a champ at all speeds; even after coming out of turnouts.

I just want to get an engine that can be considered the “head of the fleet” until I am able to expand my layout to something much larger than a simple 5x9. If you guys have other suggestions on engines that I should look at, please let me know. :slight_smile: The only reason that I’m considering BLIso heavily is because they make such a quality product. Thanks again for your input!

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This is just a personal orientation I have to the hobby. I do concentrate on several roads, but I don’t necessarily get all the engines as examples of everything any of them ran in the mid-50’s. As sacreligious as it may be to say so, I don’t have much of a hankering for the mighty Big Boy, although I do model, in a ‘relaxed’ sort of way, the Union Pacific. I like the lines of the Challenger better. So, no Big Boy.

It is similar for the N&W, Pennsy, NYC, C&O, CPR, and ATSF. Not all of their engines get under my skin, so I only purchase those that do. I have a hodge-podge of steamers.

At the moment, and it may change in time, you seem to have the same approach. You are willing to consider quality, availability, and reliability, so the road and type doesn’t matter…it just has to work on your rails. That’s probably good right now. In time as I said, you may want to narrow it down.

So, you asked what other locomotives we could recommend. First, I have no experience with the MTH lines, but their N&W J Class 4-8-4, as costly as it is by comparision, should do well on your layout. So should their Pennsy K4s 4-6-2.

The same could be said for BLI’s versions of those engines…which are somewhat less costly. BLI has another Pacific 4-6-2 marketed or soon coming out. Also a Pennsy 2-8-0 which would be an excellent choice. So would Bachmann’s Spectrum line 2-8-0 if you can find one…a very reliable engine judged by enthusiastic users over the years.

BLI has several Mikado 2-8-2’s, and besides the Consolidation 2-8-0’s I just mentioned, they were the most numerous steamers produced across the board and used for medium-tonnage freights. Passenger, not so much…seldom, in fact, except in pinches, although a few roads did use Mikes on passenger trains routinely. The CPR comes to mind.

Later, as you learn, you might pay attention to deta

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BLI huh? Well try the engine MR is previewing for Dec. The Y6B. Simply beautiful!. Articulated, Strong and big engine that would have no problem with 18"'s It handled my 18"'s on my old layout. This engine could come out of a 18" curve then turn out of a #4 switch. the switch was right next to the last curve of an 18" Think of it, Turning left on an 18" , then turning right on a #4. Which by the way is an 18" rad. Talk about tight. Yea

Joe C

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Joe C–I looked at this engine, but I think that it will hit the walls next to my layout when it turns. Part of my layout is in the corner of a room and the tracks are all about a half centimeter off of the wall. Thanks for the suggestion, though. It is a beautiful engine.

Also, does anyone know about how much the 4-8-4 Reading and the 4-6-4 Hudson can carry?

One last note, suggestions of other engines don’t have to be strictly BLI. I just enjoy the BLI sound and look :slight_smile:

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Wow

That’s not very much room. Have you ever tried a 4-8-4 through that same area? It might be tight for that also. The 2 engines you mentioned have good pulling power. I’m not totally sure but the reading was more of a freight engine while the Hudson was the pride and joy of the NYC passenger fleet. Also the Y6B is probably the same length as a 4-8-4. How about a 2-8-4 berkshire engine. Bachman and MTH come to mind on who makes them.

Joe C

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This is my BLI Hudson rounding an 18-inch curve:

I have no problems at all with this engine on my 18-inch curves, or anywhere else. It even handles my yard ladder of Atlas snap-switches, S-curves and all, at speed.

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Thanks for the replies. Seeing the engine handle a curve really helps put it into perspective. Most youtube videos don’t say what kind of curves engines can handle…which is why my youtube channel is filled with video reviews on model trains and gives their full specs :slight_smile:

I do have a Berkshire (Nickel Plate Road). It handles my 22" and 26" curves with ease. It has had several derailing problems on the inner 18" curves, but I tend to not run it through those. It doesn’t hit the sides of the wall when I run it on the outermost mainlines. The biggest problem I have with the Berkshire is that I bought it used and I think that the original owner messed it up a little bit because it constantly derails on turnouts and crossovers (but none of my diesel engines or my Pacific engine derails at those same spots).

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I thought my own trackwork was perfect, because my diesels never derailed. Then, I bought my first steamer, and found out what they say is true - to really test your trackwork, get a steamer. After I finished the track upgrades for my 0-6-0 Proto switcher, I bought the Hudson and found out what they say is true - to really test your trackwork, get a big steamer.

The long wheelbases and extra wheels are definitely more of a challenge for your track crew.

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LOL!! Yes, I have that experience as well. 'scept I started with steamers, had to fiddle with track for the sake of each new steamer I got, and THEN switched to modern diesels to repeat the process.

-Crandell

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A very smart man on this forum once replied to a post replying that 90% of the time it’s usually the track and not the engine that cause the problems. I still believe this today…

Joe C

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Anoles22,

My BRVRR has 22.5" curves on the outer main line and 20.5 curves on the inner mainline. There is an 18" curve in the revering loop. The crossovers between the mainlines are Atlas #6 turnouts but the rest of the ‘turnouts’ are Atlas Snap-Switches.

I have a BLI Hudson (4-6-4) and a BLI Mikado (2-8-2). I have never had a problem running them at speed on either mainline. They also pass without trouble through the reversing loop, forward or backing. In addition there are numerous Bachmann 4-8-4s on the layout including a Niagara, a Bachmann Spectrum N&W J, and a Southern Pacific J class. All of these locos and my Grandson’s Athearn Challenger negotiate the whole layout and pass through the crossovers at speed.

To my mind, based upon your descriptions here, I don’t see that you would have a problem with a Hudson. On the other hand, your wall clearance on the curves may be a problem for some of the larger engines. I have a very close clearance on the back (North) side of my layout, but it is on the straight away and has presented no interference problems for even the largest of steam engines.

There is a track plan of my 4X10 layout and many photos of the various locomotives listed above on my website. Most of them taken somewhere on the layout and usually on the curves. Viewing them should give you an idea of how your proposed locomotive(s) would look on your layout.

As an example, here is my BLI Hudson on the East End curve of my layout:

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I have purchased a BLI C & O L-1 Hudson to give as a retirement gift. Beautiful engine, sound is perfect–even the smoke feature is somewhat better than earlier BLI Paragon models. But, the engine runs rough; clicks and jerks, worse in forward than in reverse. Deocoder diagnostics did not reveal a problem; it looks like it might be a cracked gear somewhere in the drivetrain. Has anyone else had this problem, and did anyone find a solution for it? I have bee unable to contact BLI this week (9/11-15/17), probably due to teh hurricane in Florida, BLI HQ.

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To me, the BLI 2-8-2 Mikado is the perfect choice. Very Nice looking Engine!

Looks good behind some freight cars with a caboose on the rear.

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I have two of the older PCM versions of the Reading T1 4-8-4 - and there is no way in that hot place it’s going to make an 18" radius curve. I had 22" radius curves on my last layout and they would run on it - if run very slowly. Any decent speed in the curves and they would derail each time. Pushing it by hand, I could feel the binding caused by the curve. So 18" - no chance. Unless they really increased the side play in the drivers on the newer ones.

I’d consider all 3 of those options as too large for 18" radius. The suggestions of a smaller loco will make for more operating satisfaction. And less headaches.

–Randy