If this has been asked before, please bear with me:
We are breaking down a layout into modular-type parts for transport to Florida for reassembly. A question has come up about the structure which is plywood under a layer of Homasote. (The roadbed, track etc. cover the Homasote)
Some of the board is virgin and some of the board had been water-based laytex painted in the past.
Generally speaking, will the Homasote survive in the Florida climate (indoors) or should we coat it with something before we move it? ((There is a lot of it so we would prefer not to replace it with another product))
Relying on your advice and expertise, many thanks.
Unless you plan on leaving it outside I wouldn’t be too concerned with it. If you were talking the older stuff I would say yes put a coat of latex paint on all the exposed surfaces of the homasote and the wood as well. Painting the wood would be strictly for aesthetics. I spoke to the manufacture of Homabed and he told me he once took a piece of homasote and threw it in a bucket of water and it floated for over 9 hours or something ridiculous like that. If your keeping it in door which in Florida in a climate controlled environment then it’s no difference then being in your hose or what ever it is right now.
Both plywood and homosote will absorb water to some extent. Since Florida has an extremely humid climate, anything you can do to seal them will be worthwhile.
Unless you plan to run your air conditioning all year long, even when you’re away on vacation, then I wouldn’t count on it to protect the layout from moisture. If a storm should bring in a lot of tropical air and knock out power for several days, you wouldn’t want to add to your woes by having your track buckle.
Griz, I live in Florida and once considered using Homasote for the layout I’m currently building. Instead I’m now using 2" blue foam above plywood supports.
But please tell us what experiences did you have with homasote. There are a number of Floridians on this forum. We would benefit from your comments as a reference.
Homasote is recycled, compressed paper. It will absorb moisture and swell up or shrink when dry. Long-term soaking will cause it to literally crumble when the adhesive in it gets saturated.
Even in the dry Arizona climate, I use Sound Board instead of Homasote. Sound Board is compressed sugar cane and other vegetable fibers and does not expand or contract with changes in the weather. It’s also cheaper than Homasote and comes in a 4x8 foot, 1/2 inch thick sheet just like plywood.
I hear these stories about Homasote, and they just don’t square with my personal experience. I started a 4x8 - Homasote glued on 1/2" plywood on an L-girder frame in Coos Bay, OR. FWIW, Homasote is normally sold in 4x8 sheets. I cut the Homasote in 2’x4’ sections to get into my car to get it home. Homasote joints were sanded to be smooth. Coos Bay features fog in the summer (April to October, rain in the winter (October to April). We had electric baseboard heat in 1st house and kerosene stove in 2nd, which tended to dry things somewhat in the winter. Air conditioning was unheard of there. I handlaid track on the Homasote, and then cut both the plywood and Homasote, cookie cutter style. Neither the Homasote or lumber was sealed in any way except for the white glue to hold the Homasote to the ply, and the ties to the Homasote. Application of Plaster of Paris scenery shell (over screen wire) didn’t affect the Homasote, either.
While in Coos Bay, I had to cut the layout to 4x6. Some of the track had to be relaid in new positions. I simply scraped the old ties and ballast off (with a little Homasote). I sanded the Homasote for a new smooth surface, and laid new track over.
After 2 years, I moved to Pensacola, FL. House had central AC and heat. No problems with the layout and track, but didn’t do a whole lot with it there, either. Spent most of my mr time at a club.
A year later, I moved to a little 2 bedroom house in Hollywood FL. No central air or heat, just a large window unit with reverse cycle for heat. Louvered windows for great promotion of airflow, but no humidity control. Again, absolutely no problems with the
antoniofp45 asked about my experiences with homasote so here goes. it is the nastiest stuff i ever cut. the sheets i had were not uniform in thickess. it expands and contracts like crazy even after it has been sealed. and if humidity does not affect it after sealing, then a slight change in temperature does.
this is speaking from what happened to me about 25 years ago. perhaps today’s product is better but i will never use it again.
i am old and set in my ways but i will stay with 1/2 plywood for a base and thinner plywood or cork for roadbed.
I have used Homasote over plywood on virtually every layout I’ve built from clubs back in the 1970’s until today, from Pennsylvania to Houston to Arkansas to Nebraska to Utah. Never had any problems with shrinkage or expansion. I’ve never had any problems with homasote that has been wetted in scenery applications crumbling or swelling, etc.
I also know several people who have used Homasote spline. Never noticed and problems on their railroads.
I do paint my Homasote, but not to “seal” it against moisture, from everything I’ve read it doesn’t really work unless you use some sort of epoxy coating. I just don’t like the grey landscape.
I have had lots of problems with wood and plywood shrinking, expanding, warping and cracking.
Now Homasote is not flat. It is not uniform thickness. It does generate a lot of dust when you cut it. That’s why I have a shop vac, to pick up dust and asw dust from cutting and sanding.
I have not found a better surface to handlay track on. Until I do, I will use Homsaote.
Fred W I’m with you 100% on Homasote sure it’s messy to cut but I’m sure he already knows that. I realized after reading your post that I have Homasote in my attic used as flooring. It was widely used by builders in the late 1970’s as a cheap alternative to plywood where they could get away with it. Now a days code won’t allow them to us it that way at least around here. Homasote is not the big sponge it’s made out to be, expansion joint is one of it’s purposes so if were so water soluble then what would happens to it when wet cement hits it. Of course if you have a sever moisture problem I don’t care what you use it’s will warp and absorb moisture. Yes even exterior pressure treated plywood will warp as the ends are not sealed. It may not be the most scientific test but it’s raining like cats and dogs here in NJ since last night. I threw a piece of bare homasote on my deck and it’s been there for more then 24 hours. I picked it up about 45 min. a go and it was perfectly fine.Allen McClellan used Homasote spline roadbed on his V&O which stood for over 20 years. I have read and been told by first hand accounts that the day it was torn out it looked as good as the day it was put in. I think Allen McClelland is a reputable enough source for me.
So I would be completely confident in using homasote in Fla.
I have not yet used Homasote for model rr work; however, have used it as a tackboard (painted in a non-ac environment and unpainted in an a-c environment) without problems. Of course, the tackboards were secured to a substrate. Regarding use as a joint filler in concrete paving: 1) it may not have been Homasote but a similar wood fiber product; 2) it probably was impregnated with asphalt.
Not correct. Homasote strips (3.5" wide, 10ft long, 1/2" thick @$3.79) are sold at Home Depot for use in concrete forms. Check it out for yourself. My wife had me rip the Homasote out of one of the expansion joints in the driveway because she thought it was ugly. I filled the joint with the foam filler and super concrete patch and crack filler at 5 times the cost of the Homasote strip. The other stuff hasn’t even lasted one year. I just ripped it out and put back a section of Homasote, which now matches the other joints. It took some trimming to get the strip to fit over the embedded wire that links the 2 concrete sections. The other joints have had the Homasote strips in since the house was built in 2004. Not particularly pretty, but it works.
After reading these posts I’m wondering if everyone is talking about the same material? Around St. Louis Mo. we don’t have the best of luck with the paper board. The expansion joints around my house are all gone. The trim boards on some houses looks to be the same stuff and will deteriorate if not painted often. I have never had much respect for it.
I think you are on to something. In my past searches for Homasote, I was frequently offered Celotex or similar by the lumberyards as “the same thing”. It wasn’t the same in model railroad use, and I’m sure the differences would be even more dramatic in exterior use - similar to using interior plywood for an external application. But unless I pressed, or knew the difference (came later as I learned more), the lumberyard would not tell me I wasn’t getting “real Homasote”. My guess is a lot of their workforce didn’t know the difference, either.
When I used Celotex (sold to me as the “same as Homasote”) for roadbed, I only found out the differences when I later was able to get real Homasote. Celotex has a relatively smooth paper veener surface on one side, and the same textured reverse side as Homasote. Once you get past the paper veener, the contents are a lot less dense and more fluffy than Homasote.
I have used Homasote® for many, many years and have never really experienced any problems with it. Here in the desert Southwest it is rare for the temperature to not get into the 70s in the Winter-time; I set the thermostat on my A/C to 80° in the summer.
When I get ready to build my new layout a couple of years down the road it will, once again be “Homasote® Time” although I may take Dave H.'s suggestion and seal it with some sort of epoxy adhesive.
“Homasote strips (3.5” wide, 10ft long, 1/2" thick @$3.79) are sold at Home Depot for use in concrete forms. Check it out for yourself."
100% correct, and I bet it was coated with black gooey creosote too. Ask me how I know this, I picked up a full package of the stuff and thought I was slicker then snail snot. I couldn’t wait to get home and start cutting the curfs into it. All the way home I noticed a smell but couldn’t put my finger on it. Well it was creosote you kow the stuff used on railroad ties and on telephone poles. I got back in the truck totally disapointed and returned it to H.D. The guy in that department tol dme we normally sell it without the coating too but were all out of it.
I am probably the only idiot int he world that has visited the Homasote factory. They make the stuff about 30 miles from where Ilive and one day I happened to be in West Trenton and foud the place totally by accident. So like a blissful train nut I go and ask if I can take a look at the place, the PR guy couldn’t have been more nice and gave me the nickle tour.
Here is a quote right from their website
Q: What happens when Homasote gets wet?A: Homasote 440 is an exterior product that has excellent resistance to moisture. Like any quality building product (such as exposed siding, expansion and framing material), you should protect it from saturating moisture, and allow it to dry thoroughly before installing.
If you will be a full time resident of Florida then your A/C will run 24/7 for 8 months of the year in order to keep temperatures in the mid to upper 70’s. Over the 4 winter months indoor temps will maintain 70’s by themselves with maybe a little help from the heater on the few coldest days we have here. There will be no problems with any building materials in that controlled environment. Just don’t leave them stored outside.
I have lived in Florida for 17 years now. I am just now getting back into the hobby. The four 8’ - 0" x 30" sections of railroad that I rescued from my house up in Pennsylvania have been in a storage locker (climate controlled) for several years and standing up against the wall in a couple of different garages and are now back on their original legs, original L-girders and joists and the hand-laid track over homosote roadbed seems no worse for the wear. A couple of places needed to be re-spiked due to some rough treatment during one of the moves, but other than that all is well. The turnouts still work fine and it’s still a small thrill to watch a cut of 40’ box cars snake through a couple of “8 something” hand-laid turnouts!