I got a good chuckle out of your response. Yes, horn hook couplers work but they look dreadful, which is part of why they are “dreaded”. I have had them uncouple on me in my early days when I was a kid or still in college and spending money on couplers was secondary to getting the actual trains. I realize you tried to do all the right things but if your train came uncoupled, it was either because the couplers were not mounted properly despite all yo
I agree when properly mounted the X2F coupler works quite well…
And RG,Nobody ever said the X2F would win a beauty contest…[:O]A ugly contest I suspect the X2F would come in third place after Mantua’s loop and hook and the Kup-eze coupler.
As a kid, I hated the X2F coupler - yes even as a kid I thought KD’s looked really cool and looked alot more realistic than the the functional loop and hook or horn hook. Now I just take it for granted and am happy that the industry as a whole has toss the X2F firmly into the dust bin of history. The plastic clones are inferior to KD’s no doubt, but a major leap over the ugliniess of the X2F. There are some fossils still running around with them but they too will fade over time. They Syracuse train show (going on this weekend) probably has alot of X2F floating around due to the ponderance of old junky trains dominating the tables there.
Oddly I know of one club that still allows the use of X2F so the club is 50/50…Would you believe this club doesn’t allow the KD clones…
As a kid the X2F was the “standard” coupler that was being used by the majority of the modelers including those that would become today’s “greats”! I recall seeing a early picture of the V&O in MR(1963?) and the equipment had X2F couplers.
Make no mistake the X2F was the standard coupler at one time and it came with a plastic spring or a metal coupler with a brass spring that mounted on the back.
Another good choice in the 50s was the Mantua’s working knuckle coupler.These was pushed aside by the X2F.
AGGGGHHH!!! Give me the old brass hoop-hook coupler with that little springy ramp between the rails. [(-D][(-D][:-^]
Well, I just don’t care if those horn hooks don’t look ‘‘right’’, I don’t care about ‘‘prototypical’’ this and that, I don’t care if its all the rage to have Kadees or whatever, the folks who come to see my railroad, and bring their kids, don’t care either, and I ESPECIALLY don’t care what the goobers from the LHS think!
I used McHenry AND Kadee couplers and both uncoupled, I did everything right, and it was a total waste of time, those little springs pop out, the plastic McHenrys break, its all a waste of effort. If you’re worried about the appearance of your equipment and you think those knuckles make it look ‘‘cool’’…by all means switch over, I’ll stick with what works.
arent the McHenry’s all plastic? All the stories heard on these forums nothing works better than the Kadees. If
As stated above, I used both kinds of couplers and the much revered and worshipped Kadees uncoupled just like their plastic counterparts. They didn’t do it as much as the plastic ones but they still did it. And I’ve heard from other modellers that they have had the same problems. No coupler is 100% reliable, Kadees may be a good coupler for certain applications and they may work for some people, however, they don’t work for me, thats why I changed over to a tried and true design that works 99% of the time, horn hooks.
You make it sound like model train enthusiasts use Kadee’s because of “peer pressure” or because of being shamed into it by fellow hobbiests, or to be cool. Take the reverse logic of anti prototypical far enough and you could put a shoe box on flanged wheels and run it on rails and be happy.
Like I said before, it isn’t about cool, its about looking like the train cars I see in yards or roll by on the rails. I like to model what I see. That was very evident to me as a teenager when I used to watch the Southern Pacific switch the Hunt Wesson plant near my home in Davis California. If a teenage kid can see the difference and want to emulate it, that speaks volumes to me.
I realize there are lots of people, kids etc that like to look at trains as caracatures. By that they only see them in the most general terms and enjoy them like that. It sounds like that is the crowd you entertain. Nothing wrong with that. Just realize that in most model RR forums, 98% of the people do CARE about basic aspects of realism. So to each his own, but I think you are going to have a hard time convincing the crowd here of the advantages of horn hooks.
[quote user=“dinwitty”]
arent the McHenry’s all plastic? All the stories heard on these forums nothing works bet
The club I belonged to here in town allowed horn hooks especially on passenger cars. They used an RPO car to transition. When I joined the club they asked me to make my personal project getting the passenger terminal working. I spent over a year working on it getting working, building the buildings, wiring the track and tuning the turnouts.
The design was such that the train had to back about 30 feet into the station or, as designed, the loco would pull in to an A/D track, break off and a switcher would push the cars into one of the 8 station tracks. The problem is that the horn hook couplers just didn’t like to be pushed and the trains would derail on the turnouts. So no one used the yard.
The club refused to upgrade the couplers. I was in charge of passenger operations but my hands were tied. The passenger yard continued to serve as where people parked rolling stock that was broken or they otherwise didn’t know what to do with. I couldn’t even keep it looking good.
For years, I used the dreaded horn-hook couplers…mainly because I didn’t know any better. That was, until I bought my first issue of MR at a newstand (in 1990…keep in mind I’d been running trains since about '82 or so)…and learned about the wonders of those couplers in the yellow envelopes. Once I noticed that my trains were no longer splitting in half on runs, or derailing on those stupid “uncoupling ramps” (aka “derailing ramps”) I was hooked (pun intended). Those horn-hooks had to go!
Change-over was a gradual process, but now, everything has Kadees. Sure, they’re a pain to fit sometimes, since they have to be at the same height. But once that’s taken care of, I’ve found that they’re 99% reliable. The few times that they’ve uncoupled…have always been something screwy with the track. Maybe a nail is sticking up, or maybe the track isn’t quite level.
For me, there wasn’t any “peer pressure” involved. Kadee simply makes a better, more reliable, product. That was what sold me on them.
[quote user=“riogrande5761”]
You make it sound like model train enthusiasts use Kadee’s because of “peer pressure” or because of being shamed into it by fellow hobbiests, or to be cool. Take the reverse logic of anti prototypical far enough and you could put a shoe box on flanged wheels and run it on rails and be happy.
Like I said before, it isn’t about cool, its about looking like the train cars I see in yards or roll by on the rails. I like to model what I see. That was very evident to me as a teenager when I used to watch the Southern Pacific switch the Hunt Wesson plant near my home in Davis California. If a teenage kid can see the difference and want to emulate it, that speaks volumes to me.
I realize there are lots of people, kids etc that like to look at trains as caracatures. By that they only see them in the most general terms and enjoy them like that. It sounds like that is the crowd you entertain. Nothing wrong with that. Just realize that in most model RR forums, 98% of the people do CARE about basic aspects of realism. So to each his own, but I think you are going to have a hard time convincing the crowd here of the adv
I’m stepping back in here with a repeat of my answer, which I believe answers the question, it’s amazing how one persons question can start a war of experts that go off on completely different directions, the question is stated clearly in the opening enquiry, my answer still stands as:
For an initial cure to get you a conversion car (or indeed all if you wish), cut off the gathering tab on the horn hook with a good set of flush cutters, then cut off the protrusion underneath, you will be left with a basic knuckle, file the cut edges a bit to make smooth surfaces, and you will have a coupler that will mate automatically with Kadees (and most other magnetics), at no cost.
A cheap way to get you up and running, it can be a bit daunting to try and change everything over at once, this is a temporary cure that we find becomes quite permanent on older stock where switching is not required. Or just to get up and running again.
Teditor
Hope this answers “THE QUESTION” and keeps you involved!
If someone has a problem with Kadee’s uncoupling then I bet the real reason is poor track work, huge degree grades that have dramatic drops at the top or just poorly installed Kadee’s in poor quality cars. McHenry’s will stretch and uncouple but Kadee’s will not. I just can’t believe someone had that much trouble with Kadee couplers, sorry.
Horn hooks have pretty much gone the way of vinyl records. There are still a few holdouts in the hobby who for whatever reason have fondness for hornhooks. A few kits still come with both types but all the RTR I see use some type of knuckle coupler. I would suggest you not fight it and go with all knuckles now. It will be a bit of an expense but you will be happier in the long run. I also strongly suggest you go with Kadee. For a long time they had the knuckle coupler market pretty much to themselves. Now there are a variety of knock offs but I haven’t seen one that compares to Kadees in quality. They are still the Cadillac of couplers.
[quote user=“LD357”]
[quote user=“riogrande5761”]
You make it sound like model train enthusiasts use Kadee’s because of “peer pressure” or because of being shamed into it by fellow hobbiests, or to be cool. Take the reverse logic of anti prototypical far enough and you could put a shoe box on flanged wheels and run it on rails and be happy.
Like I said before, it isn’t about cool, its about looking like the train cars I see in yards or roll by on the rails. I like to model what I see. That was very evident to me as a teenager when I used to watch the Southern Pacific switch the Hunt Wesson plant near my home in Davis California. If a teenage kid can see the difference and want to emulate it, that speaks volumes to me.
I realize there are lots of people, kids etc that like to look at trains as caracatures. By that they only see them in the most general terms and enjoy them like that. It sounds like that is the crowd you entertain. Nothing wrong with that. Just realize that in most model RR forums, 98% of the people do CARE about basic aspects of realism. So to each his own, but I think you are going to have a hard time convincing the c
My bad! We hear you loud and in bold blue font clear!
I would like to point out there is a middle ground. We don’t have to characterize people who are into realism as (my own words but I hear this in your tone) prototype police or fanatics. I see people who like a degree of realism but who are not rivit counters and who don’t have to have every freight car a match to the prototype. Many of these modelers have alot of train cars that would be considered “fantasy” or “bogus” but they still use KD’s and find they add a degree of realism and yes, reliability. I’ve operated them too and didn’t experience the issues you did, but I did experience issues with my horn hooks. So I’ll continue to argue my side of the story (which I suppose is the purpose of this thread. Readers and novices can gather a consensus here and decide for themselves.
[quote]
I’ve had my fill of the ‘‘rivet counters’’ and ‘‘prototypical operators’’ in the clubs, who can’t have fun because they’re too busy with that stupid scale ruler, their little book of railroad car pics and the constant ‘‘trying-to-outdo-each-other’’ mentality. I’ve seen operating sessions dissolve into near fist fi
You all seem to have missed the point, I’m not saying DON’T switch to knuckles, I’m saying I don’t like them, and I wasn’t the only one who had trouble with the ‘‘rivet counting morons’’ at the club, there were 12 people in it and 6 left because of the constant idiocy of the others, and YES they were trying to get in MR and RMC, and they preached that anything short of absolute realism was unacceptable. The coupler thing was not a ‘‘deal breaker’’ as you call it, it was one of the many things the 6 morons complained about constantly, I had many cars that were equipped with Kadees, mostly Athearn, a few Roundhouse, but the other members had horn hooks and they were always being bashed for it. After having never ending trouble with the Kadee springs flying off, derailments and couplers that wouldn’t connect…I switched everything I had to horn hooks, works fine for me, and I told the idiots at the club where they could stick their ‘‘absolute realism’’ mantra.
That sorta thing is not what I’m about, I’m about enjoying myself, not worrying what someone else thinks is ‘‘realism’’. Like I said before, change if you want, enjoy the work involved, and admire your new real looking equipment, meanwhile, I’ll be running my railroad!
The answer is simple because NMRA couplers many disadvantages and their primary advantage was that they were “free” but that’s mostly no longer true. Come to the “better side”: convert to Kadees. Each free day, pick out a piece of equipment, install Kadee couplers, check out the wheels for gauge (and I recommend you replace any plastic wheels with metal ones), lubricate, etc. If conversion isn’t straight-forward, put aside for later evaluation. Locomotives are more problematic, but Kadee has many variations in response. In a few weeks, you should have a significant number of compatable rolling stock. So, don’t waste your time on transitional equipment (NMRA on one end, Kadee on the other).
Mark