How did C&O passenger trains reach Chicago?

[richhotrain]

It sure does. Can I buy you a beer?

Thanks a bunch.

Rich

[MP173]

Probably not a beer, but perhaps a Pork Tenderloin if you are ever in NW Indiana!

Forgot to mention. In Lacrosse In there is still a tower standing at the former crossing of the Monon (line to Michigan City, now abandoned) and the CKIN (former C&O). It is standing out in the middle of a field on the line running from LaCrosse to Malden. Again, consult Google Maps to view. Always wanted to walk out to the tower and catch a CKIN passing the tower. Havent yet. Probably never will.

The ex C&O to North Judson has a customer about 2 miles SE of Lacrosse. I believe covered hoppers of gypsom is unloaded into trucks to transfer to a local drywall plant.

BTW…when C&O started running freights via Wellsboro, the ex PM branch was upgraded to welded rail which still is in use today. No signals were used and there were no passing sidings between Wellsboro and Lacrosse so trains would need to be held at Wellsboro or Lacrosse for the 15 mile trek. What an interesting operation.

Lacrosse “back in the day” was a pretty busy rail spot (before my time) with C&O, Monon branch to Michigan City, and PRR ex Panhandle double track main between Chicago and Logansport which handled considerable freight plus about 6 passenger trains/mail trains daily. Nothing quite like North Judson but still busy.

Today North Judson is a shadow of its former self (EL, C&O, PRR, and NYC) but does have the impressive Hoosier Valley Rail Museum with motive power, tower and operations.
Ed

[BaltACD]

CSX Corporation was created November 1, 1980 with the subordinate carriers Chessie System and Seaboard Coast Line. It operated in that configuration until about 1986 when the various mergers between the SCL, Chessie System and all the various included companies were officially merged into CSX Transportation as the operating carrier with the initials CSXT.

[ATLANTIC_CENTRAL]

It should be noted here that in 1963 the C&O took control of the B&O. And even though it stayed two separate companies until 1973, it progressively operated more and more like one company over that 10 year period.

And prior to that, not having much bearing on the passenger service question, the B&O already controlled the Western Maryland.

Sheldon

[rcdrye]

!948 OG shows C&O train 19 arriving Hammond at 4:25PM (262 miles in 8 hrs 25 minutes, average speed 31.1 mph). Erie train 5, the Lake Cities, was scheduled to depart at 4:33 PM (note g). Train 20 departed Hammond at 9:15AM with a bold timetable note (a left hand crescent).

g Erie, Monon and CSS&SB (South Shore Line) accept on their trains Hammond to Chicago tickets reading via C&O.

NOTE - The C.S.S.& S.B. Ry (South Shore Line) will honor tickets reading account C.&O. Ry. from Chicago, Ill. to Hammond, Ind., on their 7 00 a.m. and 7 30 a.m. (C.T.) electric trains from Randolph Street and other scheduled stopping points in Chicago.

C&O, Monon and Erie shared the Hammond station (a). The C.So.Sh.& So.B.(El) station (g) was shown as “1 mile from (a)”

[BaltACD]

How did C&O passenger trains reach Chicago?

It should be noted here that in 1963 the C&O took control of the B&O. And even though it stayed two separate companies until 1973, it progressively operated more and more like one company over that 10 year period. And prior to that, not having much bearing on the passenger service question, the B&O already controlled the Western Maryland. Sheldon

Picture of Cyrus Eaton who was the Chairman of the Board of the C&O in the early 1960’s - He held a social event at his farm in Northfield, Ohio in the Summer of 1963 for B&O and C&O employees,

[richhotrain]

@MP173

My guess is if you wanted Chicago to Cincy direct train one would take either NYC or PRR but if one wanted Chicago to one of the small Indiana towns the C&O offered a route. My 1955 OG shows “Freight Service Only” for the route.

Well, that could be, although the C&O did not run through most of the larger (for Indiana, that is) towns. Maybe the C&O was selected because it was the only route from Cincinnati to Chicago?

Rich

[richhotrain]

@MP173

Hope this makes sense.

It all makes sense, and I greatly appreciate it. Thanks again.

Rich

[richhotrain]

@rcdrye

!948 OG shows C&O train 19 arriving Hammond at 4:25PM (262 miles in 8 hrs 25 minutes, average speed 31.1 mph). Erie train 5, the Lake Cities, was scheduled to depart at 4:33 PM (note g). Train 20 departed Hammond at 9:15AM with a bold timetable note (a left hand crescent).

g Erie, Monon and CSS&SB (South Shore Line) accept on their trains Hammond to Chicago tickets reading via C&O.

NOTE - The C.S.S.& S.B. Ry (South Shore Line) will honor tickets reading account C.&O. Ry. from Chicago, Ill. to Hammond, Ind., on their 7 00 a.m. and 7 30 a.m. (C.T.) electric trains from Randolph Street and other scheduled stopping points in Chicago.

C&O, Monon and Erie shared the Hammond station (a). The C.So.Sh.& So.B.(El) station (g) was shown as “1 mile from (a)”

This is great info, rcdrye. Thanks so much.

Rich

[richhotrain]

@BaltACD

Picture of Cyrus Eaton who was the Chairman of the Board of the C&O in the early 1960’s - He held a social event at his farm in Northfield, Ohio in the Summer of 1963 for B&O and C&O employees,

Love those photos.

Rich

[gmpullman]

@BaltACD

Picture of Cyrus Eaton who was the Chairman of the Board of the C&O in the early 1960’s - He held a social event at his farm in Northfield, Ohio in the Summer of 1963 for B&O and C&O employees,

This might help explain why the C&O and later Chessie System corporate offices were still in Cleveland in the mid '70s. I’ll have to look up when they moved, was it to Jacksonville or was there an interim location?

In the early '70s I was given a ‘sneak peek’ at the new Chessie System ‘Cat’ logo and even given some bumper and window stickers with the admonition that I was not going to show them to anyone at least until after the official unveiling after the director’s annual meeting on August 30, 1972.

Chessie News by Edmund, on Flickr

Chessie System 1977 August 1972 by Edmund, on Flickr

The ‘unveiling’ at West 3rd. Clark Ave Yard in 1972:

Chessie System Unveils New GP40-2 1977

I wonder if anyone has a pair of Chessie hot pants in their railroad artifact collection?

Cheers, Ed

[richhotrain]

@gmpullman

In the early '70s I was given a ‘sneak peek’ at the new Chessie System ‘Cat’ logo and even given some bumper and window stickers with the admonition that I was not going to show them to anyone at least until after the official unveiling after the director’s annual meeting on August 30, 1972.

Well, did you or didn’t you?

Rich

[BaltACD]

Cyrus Eaton a financier from the Cleveland area controlled a majority interest of the C&O and had its corporate HQ in Terminal Tower in Cleveland. When Eaton passed on corporate offices were moved to Richmond. Hays T. Watkins was the leader of the Chessie System at the time of the creation of CSX Corporation.

CSX Corporation when it was formed had Richmond as its corporate headquarters with a staff of roughly 50 people. The corporate HQ remained in Richmond until John Snow left the top job to be Secretary of the Treasury. Thereafter Michael Ward got the top job and moved the corporate HQ to Jacksonville.

Following Mr. Ward the Dark Ages overtook the corporation in the form of EHH and his folly of PSR.

[gmpullman]

@BaltACD

Cyrus Eaton a financier from the Cleveland area controlled a majority interest of the C&O and had its corporate HQ in Terminal Tower in Cleveland.

Fascinating character, that Cy Eaton.

Eaton rebuilt his fortune in the 1940s and 1950s, becoming a director (1943), then board chairman (1954), of the Chesapeake and Ohio Railway, and also board chairman of the West Kentucky Coal Co. (1953).

I imagine the main reason the C&O’s corporate HQ was in Cleveland was the influence of the Van Sweringen brothers. (The following from Wikipedia)

At their zenith in 1928, the Van Sweringens controlled 30,000 miles (50,000 km) of rail worth $3 billion, nearly all of it purchased through credit. Lines under their control included the Erie Railroad, Pere Marquette Railway, Hocking Valley Railway, and Chesapeake and Ohio Railway. They managed to control this huge (for the time) system by a maze of holding companies (including the Alleghany Corporation) and interlocking directorships.

Regards, Ed

[matt_mcc]

A fantastic Trains article from 1974, “Whither the Riley” charts the myriad of routes. I rode the NYC-IC route in 1972 from IUS north. Maybe 6 hours to Kankakee. IC was 70+ from there. Painful on the PC.

[richhotrain]

@gmpullman

Fascinating character, that Cy Eaton.

Yes, sure seems like it.

Rich

[richhotrain]

@matt_mcc

A fantastic Trains article from 1974, “Whither the Riley” charts the myriad of routes. I rode the NYC-IC route in 1972 from IUS north. Maybe 6 hours to Kankakee. IC was 70+ from there. Painful on the PC.

Ooh, I would like to get a hold of that article. Is it a single map or multiple maps?

Rich

[richhotrain]

I started a new thread with what I believe is the actual route of C&O passenger trains through Indiana.

The C&O of Indiana

I believe that I have finally found my answer as to how the C&O passenger trains made their way through Indiana from Cincinnati Ohio to Hammond Indiana. I found the following map and that led me to the route. [Indiana History] Source: Official Railroad Map of Indiana - Maps in the Indiana Historical Society Collections - Indiana Historical Society Digital Images I found this discussion, which I am summarizing, on the following website. It details a whole bunch of smaller railroads, created …

Rich