How did C&O passenger trains reach Chicago?

It is pretty clear once these trains crossed into Illinois, but I am puzzled as to how they came through Indiana.

The C&O did not have any track in Indiana. My understanding is that they entered into Indiana from Cincinnati, Ohio. The C&O was late to the game and, supposedly, it ran into a lot of opposition from the owners of several big railroads who had quite a bit earlier competed for the best routes into Chicago for their passenger trains and didn’t want any more competition. As a result, the C&O had to rely on trackage rights from other railroads and was unable to connect with any of the larger cities in Indiana.

I believe that the C&O used Big Four track from Louisville for part of its passage through Indiana. But then the route becomes somewhat murky until the C&O arrived in North Judson Indiana and then on to Hammond, Indiana where it crossed into Illinois.

Here is a map showing the diagonal route that the C&O took through Indiana.

Source: Google

Can someone help me out here?

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The C&O of Indiana ran from Cincinnati.
C&O of Indiana - Classic Trains General Discussion - Trains.com Forums

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Oh boy. Well, that shows you how little I know about the C&O passenger train route. :flushed:

Thanks for the correction. I edited my opening post.

Rich

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I’ve ridden Amtrak’s The Cardinal a few times. If I’m not mistaken this is the same route of the New York Central’s James Whitcomb Riley?

Amtrak - Taylor Street by d.w.davidson, on Flickr

Due to lousy track conditions, the Riley was rerouted several times in the Amtrak era. at times there were miles-long stretches of 10 MPH speed restrictions.

Cheers, Ed

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Yeah, but that is Amtrak. I’m looking for the route that the C&O took from Cincinnati to Chicago through Indiana. I know that the C&O passenger trains headed for Chicago into Central Station reached the Illinois state line at Hammond, Indiana, so I know the route from there into downtown Chicago. I also found that C&O did not have its own track in Indiana. From Cincinnati, the C&O used Big Four track for some distance, but I cannot complete that route to Hammond. So, I am looking for help in that regard.

Rich

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I have been doing a bit more research on this question, and I found a couple of interesting comments.

From the C&O Historical Society:

In 1910 C&O merged the Chicago, Cincinnati & Louisville Railroad into its system. This line had been built diagonally across the state of Indiana from Cincinnati to Hammond in the preceding decade. This gave the C&O a direct line from Cincinnati to the great railroad hub of Chicago.

That comment would suggest that the C&O passenger trains used this route.

But, then this from another website:

The final line through Starke County was built in 1902. The Cincinnati, Richmond and Muncie Railroad was the second railroad built through English Lake and the fourth into North Judson. In 1903, it was renamed the Chicago Cincinnati & Louisville (CC&L) Railroad. This railroad would later become part of the Chesapeake and Ohio Railway Company (C&O). The Chesapeake & Ohio Railroad’s Cincinnati to Chicago mainline saw its first passenger train in 1907 and later became known as the C&O of Indiana.

Source: 7. Chesapeake & Ohio Railway Company (Cincinnati, Richmond and Muncie RR) - Starke County Historical Society.

I get lost in the names of all of these old railroads.

So, now I wonder, did the C&O run from Cincinnati to North Judson, Indiana and then on from there to Hammond?

Rich

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Initially Amtrak had to absorb the operating procedures of the member railroads.

Historically, it is a starting point to study the operating schemes of the remaining passenger operations that survived through the '60s.

Sorry I couldn’t be of more help.
Ed

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Hey, don’t be sorry. I am depending upon you to help me solve this mystery.

Rich

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C&O had its own exit from Cincinnati via Cheviot Hill, then headed northwest to Richmond and Muncie. The direct route over the hill was replaced by a route over ex-B&O lines. The current route is patched together from various CSX predecessors, with the main portion north of Crawfordsville on the ex-Monon.

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Thanks, rcdrye. That is very helpful. :+1:

Rich

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Found this very informative detail:

Due to its location, Indiana has been crossed by railroads since the railroad boom began. As time went on, most railroad companies in Indiana would be consolidated into larger, mostly eastern, railroad companies. The two biggest in Indiana were the Pennsylvania and the New York Central. Other eastern railroads would come to the state, in smaller proportions. One of these was the Chesapeake & Ohio (C&O), usually referred to as the Chessie.

What would become the C&O of Indiana was a relative late comer to the state. The original plan for the railroad company, chartered as the Chicago & Cincinnati on 22 January 1902, was to create a direct connection between the two title cities. Another railroad, the Cincinnati, Richmond & Muncie (CR&M), was chartered on 23 March 1900. These two companies were merged into a second Cincinnati, Richmond & Muncie Railroad on 20 May 1902.

The first CR&M did actually build a great deal of track. In 1901, the company connected Cottage Grove to Muncie for a total of 57.89 miles. Cottage Grove is a town southeast of Liberty in Union County. This route came out of Cottage Grove due north, connecting to Richmond and Muncie. The route connecting Richmond to Muncie basically follow what is now US 35 between the two cities.

The second piece of track built by the first CR&M was completed in 1902 from Muncie to North Judson, 109.9 miles. This connected Muncie to Marion and Peru on its way to North Judson. At that time, North Judson was serviced by several railroads at that time. By 1910, these railroads were the New York Central, the Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Chicago & St. Louis (aka Panhandle) of the Pennsylvania, and the Erie. This would allow the CR&M access to Chicago via trackage rights. It should be noted here that the Panhandle route that connected to North Judson also connect that town to Marion, like the CR&M. The Panhandle route, though, connected through Logansport.The second CR&M company would connect North Judson to Beatrice, a span of 26.7 miles, in 1902.

Another company that would build part of the completed route from Cincinnati to Chicago would be formed on 7 March 1902 in Ohio as the Cincinnati & Indiana Western. That company started construction on the line from Cincinnati to Cottage Grove, a line of 45 miles. This company, however, would not complete this construction before it was consolidated, on 1 June 1903, with the second Cincinnati, Richmond & Muncie to become the Chicago, Cincinnati & Louisville Railroad (CC&L). This company complete the line that the Cincinnati & Indiana Western started on 7 February 1904. On the same day, the company opened trackage from Beatrice, in Porter County, to Griffith, in Lake County. Completion of the tracks would connect Cincinnati to Griffith.

The line would end at Griffith until trackage was completed, in October 1907, to the Illinois-Indiana State Line by the Chicago, Cincinnati & Louisville. On 2 July 1910, a new company was chartered in Indiana, the Chesapeake & Ohio Railway Company of Indiana (C&O-I). This company was formed after the Chicago, Cincinnati & Louisville was sold at foreclosure on 23 June 1910. The new C&O-I acquired the CC&L property three days after it was formed.

The Chesapeake & Ohio would continue through many changes of ownership. At one point, the majority of the stock in the C&O also owned the majority shares in the Nickel Plate, Pere Marquette and the Erie. This fell apart with the onset of the Great Depression. The C&O would, in 1973, be loosely combined with the Baltimore & Ohio and the Western Maryland to form the Chessie System. Eventually, these three lines would be gradually integrated, forming a cohesive whole.

1982 saw the Chessie System merge with the Seaboard Coast Line (the owner of the former Monon in Indiana) to create CSX Transportation. Five years later, CSX decided that the old C&O-I line across Indiana was no longer needed. Most of it was abandoned and pulled up. The old route forms the basis of the Cardinal Greenway, a rail-trail that, when completed, would use most of the old right of way to connect Richmond to Marion with a multi-use recreational facility.

Source: The Chesapeake & Ohio Railway of Indiana – Indiana Transportation History

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I think that I am closing in on my answer.

Rich

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It appears (to me) because of changes in ownership and merges routes varied into Chicago.

Similar to trains into Leeds. A direct route and secondary one. Both busy ones due to different railway companies using them.

David

C&O of Indiana used Grand Central form 1907-1910, Central from 1910-1925, back to Grand Central from 1925-1933, then terminated trains in Hammond (passengers used Erie or CSS&SB to Chicago) after 1933. Route to Grand Central was C&WI to Pullman Jct, then CTT. (B&OCT). Before 1910 the connection might have been via Grand Junction and the connecting track used by NYC, NKP and Rock Island to use Grand Central while LaSalle was being rebuilt. 1910-1925 used the NKP connection to IC’s main line.

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Yeah, but that doesn’t answer my quesion.

Rich

One of the resources that I rely on is a map of passenger railroads into Chicago in 1928. The map was published in the July, 2003 issue of Trains magazine. That map shows C&O passenger trains crossing the Illinois state line at Hammond and eventually connecting to the ICRR tracks to Central Station. Those trains got to Hammond from Cincinnati. My question is the roue through Indiana.

So, rcdrye, I am interested in your routing comments. You are saying that the C&O passenger trains reached Grand Central Station (a destination I once thought was correct), not the IC’s Central Station via the C&WI. In turn, those trains reached the the C&WI at Pullman Junction via the B&OCT (formerly the CTT track) connection.

I tend to accept your version over that Trains map. Your thoughts?

So, you are saying that after 1933, passengers disembarked the C&O train at Hammond and boarded an Erie (Dearborn Station) or CSS&SB (Central Station) train to Chicago? No more C&O trains to Chicago?

Rich

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Not after 1933. At least some of the post-1933 trains were motor cars. Passengers’ lives were made a little easier by C&O of I and Erie sharing a station in Hammond. The South Shore station was a couple of blocks away. All of this was spelled out in the OG listing so selling agents shouldn’t have been surprised. South Shore and North Shore were both part of the traffic associations, so they could both sell and honor interline tickets. CSS&SB trains went to Randolph Street Station - IC had a station at 11th Street, but I don’t think South Shore trains stopped there.

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That is amazing and something that I did not realize. That is probably why I can find so little information about the C&O’s passenger train route through Indiana.

Rich

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rcdrye, I was reading your comments on C&O’s use of Grand Central Station in the following thread. All very interesting.

Rich

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I pulled my 1935 Official Guide and C&O shows trains 17 and 18 from Cincy to Hammond, these appear to be local trains. Both trains left terminals at 840 am with late afternoon arrivals at the destination.

Further there is a note which reads:
The South Shore will honor tickets account C&O from Chicago to Hammond on their 7am and 8am electric trains from Randolph Street…

My guess is if you wanted Chicago to Cincy direct train one would take either NYC or PRR but if one wanted Chicago to one of the small Indiana towns the C&O offered a route. My 1955 OG shows “Freight Service Only” for the route.

Here is where it gets interesting. In the 70s C&O reached Chicago via Erie Lackawanna over Griffith. When EL was absorbed into Conrail, the Griffith connection was lost. So, C&O routed their freights (about 4 each way plus the Amtrak Cardinal) to LaCrosse, then made a turn north (or south) to Wellsboro on the old Pere Marquette branch which ran from New Buffalo to Lacrosse. A connection track was built from the PM to the B&O mainline in the NW quadrant which connected C&O / Cincy to Chicago. Wellsboro in the late 70s was a busy spot with B&O, C&O, Amtrak, and GTW with an operator handling train orders for B&O/C&O movements. Another operator was located in Lacrosse. I spent quite a bit of time in Wellsboro and got to know the day shift operator - Mr. Bishop. Would go there and spend an entire shift with him. I have numerous photos of Wellsboro.

The Amtrak from south would run on C&O to Lacrosse, follow the PM to Wellsboro and make a left hand turn to B&O mainline. If one looks at Wellsboro on Google Maps one can make out the ROW (now abandoned) connecting PM line to B&O. There was a local which ran on the old PM from New Buffalo (I think) to Lacrosse. Have a photo of that train picking up orders at Wellsboro to continue south.

CSX then consolidated and abandoned the C&O line sending traffic up from Cincy to Deshler then west on ex B&O. Today they run M352/M353 via that route. One can watch those trains on the Deshler railcam.

Meanwhile the ex C&O from North Judson to Wellsboro (and west to Malden at Lacrosse) is the Chesapeake and Indiana (the CKIN - the chicken) short line ran out of Lacrosse with interchange in Wellsboro and Thomaston (NS ex NKP). Quite a bit of grain handled from Malden and Wellsboro.

Hope this makes sense.

Ed

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