Hi,
I’m debating on whether or not to get a Life Like(not Walthers) era Proto 2000 GP9 (blue box, engine shell and chassis separated).
How well do they run? (in terms of quietness and smoothness)
If an Athearn old blue box engine ran a 1 and an Athearn new genesis engine ran a 10, where would Life like Proto 2000 stand?
Also, how do their gp9s overall? Are they comparable to Athearn Genesis GP9s?
Thanks!
Charles
I have an ABBA set of Proto 2000 Alco FA units. They look good and run good. Quieter than my Athearn bluebox F units. I don’t have any Proto 2000 GP7 or GP9 models, but Proto 2000 has a good rep and I would expect their GP’s to be very decent runners.
Charles,
I have both steam and diesel locomotives in the “Pre-Walthers” Proto 2000 line and they all run smooth and quiet. Some of the early LL’s had split gear issues but it is easily (and inexpensively) remedied with replacement gears from Athearn. None of mine ever had that issue.
Tom
I have a P2K GP7, older model, and it runs as quiet as you can get, fairly smooth too, not as good as Atlas, but pretty good. Beware of cracked gears. I haven’t heard of an older P2K without this problem. Mine had all four gears cracked, but fixing them was a sinch, and I consider myself a Beginner intermediate. It now runs great on my DC layout, and has run good on the DCC club layout too(with temporary Digitax economy decoder).
Because LifeLike had been known for rather low end scenery materials and trains sets, those first Proto2000 releases (I think the E7 or E8 was the first) were revelations at the time. Nice detail and paint schemes, smooth and quiet drive trains, and the price seemed right for the quality.
More engines were released. It was clear that the manufacturer was closely copying Athearn drive trains to the point where parts were interchangeable.
Then problems occured with the early releases. The gears started to crack on the axles leading to noisy clicking as engines ran and there was a “hitch in the git-along.” LifeLike offered free replacement wheels for affected engines (and some guys just used Athearn parts which dropped right in). Even after Walthers acquired LifeLike they’d replace defective wheels for free - until finally so much time went by that any defective P2K locomotive had obviously been released and sold long long ago.
And another problem arose. If the engine was sitting without being used and run, the lubricant initially used on Proto2000 engines turned into gunk and then, almost rock like. The trucks had to be opened up, the old lubricant removed and replaced.
If you have an older Proto2000 diesel and it does not run DO NOT TURN UP THE “JUICE” and try to bully it into running. The gunky lubricant won’t budge and you could burn out a motor.
So depending on when the engine you are looking at was issued, it MIGHT have the clicking gear problem, the gunked lubricant problem, or both. Or maybe a prior owner took care of it, or both.
Even thought Walthers no longer gives away free replacement wheels, from time to time they import and sell replacements for those that need them. I just checked and they have them in stock (and for sale!)
920-584494 wheel/gear sets are for early LifeLike Proto2000 E units (E6 through E9). 920-584408 are for early LifeLike Proto200
I’d say get it if the price is good (it likely will be)!
P2Ks have one proble, the gears tend to crack. The problem is consistate, by which I mean your loco will likely have one. They are, however, very easy to fix with athearn gears, and the issue is so common that there is plenty of material on how to do it.
Once the cracked gears are fixed, they should run fine. I’d say about 7/10 compared to newer stuff, but for the time great. Second only to Atlas/Katis for the time.
Also P2K was miles ahead of other period manufacturers in terms of detail. On P2K geeps you will find prototype and road number specific detail in terms of dynamic breaks, steam generators, etc, in my experience correct for each road number.
Also P2Ks strip paint easily with chemical paint stripper, at least from what I’ve heard, no sand blaster needed.
Now if you can afford an Athearn Genesis geep, get it over a P2K, because the Athearns are the VERY BEST gets on the market, great sound, a wealth of prototype and roadnumber specific detail, great runners, they have not problems whatsoever! P2Ks are nothing close but still great and I highly recommend them, especially considering they will be cheaper than an Athearn.
Hope this was helpful!
I was aware of the cracked gear issue, I already have replacements on hand.
I went ahead and bought it. $54 (shipping included) for a new Santa fe gp9!
Thanks for all the replies!
Charles
I have all 4 GP7’s they made factory painted for Reading, plus both of the Alco S1 switchers. All run very well. The Geeps have put in a lot of mileage at club shows, and they still run smoothly, never had a problem with them (I replaced the axle gears with the Athearn parts when I had them apart to install decoders).
I also have several P2K FAs. I think I now have all the factory painted ones, any more I would need to either get undec or strip and repaint, but I wouldn’t hesistate to buy a P2K loco. Well worth it.
–Randy
I have P2K GPs, SDs and E7-E9s and all run very good and quite. They are good pullers and have good detail although a bit fragile. The only problems I had with P2K locomotives is their PA series, they were bad at derailing. I sent a pair back under warranty and the new ones were just as bad. Walthers was aware of the derail problem and over a couple of years they sent me several sets of trucks to try and nothing helped, I retired them as hanger queens on display in my yard.
Mel
My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/
Bakersfield, California
I’m beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, stop the train!
54 dollars! 54 DOLLARS!!!
Yes, buy it! Good choice! Shipping included!
Wow, want a deal! I would buy a lower quality engine for that. P2K it the best thing for 54 dollars!
I sincerely hope this loco serves you well, and if it doesn’t, you only payed 54 DOLLARS! for it. Good find! No, GREAT find!
I have two LL P2K GP9s and a GP18 in SCL and simply love these smooth running engines.
While they are not geared for high warp speeds they do just fine in the scale speed department.
These make excellent yard engine as well because of their low slow speed and pulling ability.
I also have four of them. Have since replaced all axle gears with Athearn’s Got them back in 94’, they did not have grease in them, it was oil. Great runners!
Take Care! [:D]
Frank
I have 2 of the GP-9s. Other than the cracked gears, which I have replaced, no problems.
I have a P1K Alco RSC-3, which is great although lacking in shell detail. I’ve also got two sets of the subway trains. One of those developed a shorted motor, which I had to replace
Congrats! If you found a PROTO Geep for $54, take it and RUN!
[:D]
I bought a new Proto 2000 NYC S-1 switcher on eBay back in 2005 for $25 plus shipping. (I think it was $100 MSRP.) Terrific little switcher and runs very well. The only thing I had to do was isolate the motor brushes from the frame, despite the labeling indicating it was “DCC-ready”.
Tom
One thing you can say about Life-Like’s business model, they sure didn’t worry about “pre-orders”. I think that may be what hurt the business, ultimately. There was just SO much inventory. Here we are some twenty-years later and there are still lots of new-old stock out there.
I recently bought a still-shrink-wrapped FA-2 along with two FB-2 B units. Got those for $35 each!
Besides the grease and cracked gears, be sure to snap off the worm cover and check the free-play of the main shaft. Somehow a corrosion sets in and, in the case of these three Alcos, the drive shaft was locked to the bearing due to some kind of varnish/dried lubricant/chemical reaction.
Proto_gear-3 by Edmund, on Flickr
I put three Tsunami-2 decoders in these after modifying the weight in addition to a pair of sugar cube speakers. They sound and run beautifully.
PRR_AF16-9616a by Edmund, on Flickr
I added PRR Train Phone to them as well.
PRR_9616-FA2x-sm by Edmund, on Flickr
Thank You, Ed
“How do LifeLike Proto2000 engines run?”
They run great!. Most of my diesel fleet is LifeLike era Proto2000, about 50 of them at last count.
They include EMD GP7’s, ALCO FA/FB’s, EMD BL2’s, ALCO PA/PB’s, EMD E8’s, EMD SD9’s, ALCO S1’s, EMD SW9’s.
As others have explained cracked gears and hard grease have been the only issues.
On average, I have only paid about $50 each for these locos. I run DC, and do rewire some of the older ones depending on which circuit board they came with.
Still pick them up “new old stock” if they are priced right and on my list of “wants”.
Not the best pictures, but here are a few:
Sheldon
$54 is a good deal, but by the way some people are replying - did I miss something? All 4 of the Geeps I own were $50 or less - heck the one I got for $25 at Timonium, guy had $30 marked on it, and it was right at opening time, I picked it up, he said gimme $25 and we’re good - SOLD! All have been int he boox. One of my S1’s I won on eBay from Modeltrainstuff for $30. The one’s I have a hard time finding for low prices are the FAs, but those are sets of two powered units, so $100 isn;t really that bad if a single unit is $50.
What gets me is how the Atlas GP7s, with MUCH poorer detail level, are ALWAYS $100 or more on eBay, P2Ks, $40 all day.
And every one I have - came in the original box.
–Randy
Agreed, I will take a Proto over an Atlas any day. Sure the Atlas drive may be “slightly” better, but overall, the Proto is much better detailed and a much better value - New or “New Old Stock”.
I too have only paid $25 and $30 for many Protos. Others I paid a little more to get specific versions, especially specific undecorated versions.
Back in those days there was typically two or three undecorated versions covering the various optional equipment, like with or w/o dynamic brakes, etc.
Sheldon
I mean, they aren’t perfect (are any?). The P2K Reading ones have the wrong horn position (but the Atlas ones have the wrong type of horn AND it’s in the wrong place). The P2K is missing the long wraparound grab (so’s Atlas). The P2K is painted correctly - F indication on the long hood, but the crew figures are facing the short hood (and it’s wired to run short hood forward). And hardly anyone actually puts the cab roof drip rails on Reading power. But face it, this is NOT a RTR hobby if you want specific detail, no one makes them that good, at least not for anything but the very biggest railroads. I add drip strips, and paint the vertical handrails yellow, and live with the horn and the missing corner grab. When adding a decoder, I wire it so it runs long hood forward in the normal setting, so I don;t have to change CV29 to make it run the opposite way (which I will forget some years later and wonder why it’s running short hood forward after an update or reset).
–Randy