HI Everyone and Good Evening I was wondering something. I live in Milwaukee Wi and there is a crossing that is by my house that has been. Paved over but the lights and all of the signs indicating the crossing are. Still up which in turn all commercial vehicles still have to stop and check for trains that. Will not be coming since the place that the tracks lead to stopped taking railcar deliveries last year. But the other crossings have not been paved over. Like the last one that leads into the recycling plant under went major changes a couple of years ago because of accidents that was one of the most accident prone crossing in milwaukee. Because the trains would usually do there switching late at night right around. Bar closing time and of course the drunk drivers would not. See the train and run into it. So the railroad spent thousands of dollars. To put up Gates and Lights now that the company does not get railcars anymore why wouldn’t the railroad take everything down and place.Exempt signs or Tracks out of service signs at the crossings so people traveling behind buses and hazmat trucks don’t get. Mad when the bus or truck has to stop at a crossing that is no longer in use Thank You all for your responses.
Perhaps the paving-over was done prematurely, and/ or by highway people who are mistaken, or ‘jumped the gun’ on the abandonment of the rail line and hence the crossing.
. How permanent is the cessation of rail service ? Might it resume when the economy improves, or diesel fuel prices for trucks rise again ?
Closing or any other major change at a crossing usually involves a petition to and approval by the state public utilities commission, or a similar agency. Perhaps the railroad didn’t want to spend that money yet - it may see the traffic coming back someday. Let someone else pay for the ‘Exempt’ petition, too. Further, to abandon the whole line requires approval by the Surface Transportation Board, and maybe the railroad doesn’t want to do that either.
- Paul North.
I have a feeling it would take time, money and paperwork to get a crossing listed as exempt, or out of service. Then repeat the same to bring the crossing back to life. I know of crossings near here that may be used 2 times a year… yet they are maintained for those two times a year. You never know, next year they may want weekly/daily service.
So while the scrapyard may not be recieving cars today, what’s to say that they won’t want to bring in cars next week? So even though the line is nto being used, it probably is still in service.
Thanks Zug,
I don’t know much about paved-over crossings and out-of service lines but I do know that I have always appreciated being able to participate in these forums without fear of being belittled for my spelling, grammar, punctuation etc. Lets just enjoy “talking trains” and leave the nit-picking for the English 101 Forum.
Maybe the railroad is leaving them up so if there ever comes a day that they ship by rail again they wont have to replace anything? Who knows.But exempting a crossing then trying to get it back in normal operation is a hassle I bet.
The answer is you know a grade crossing is out of service when you don’t get to run trains on that track anymore.
Reply with a little wandering off topic.
All of the crossings for the Minnesota Zephyr line have “EXEMPT” signs at their posts. They put them up some time last spring or summer. The Zephyr last ran 12-31-08. They are waiting to see if the state finds money under a rock somewhere to buy the ROW (it won’t be happening anytime soon as Minnesota is the next state to be broke). Last article I read there is a group interested in buying the entire operation and running it again if the owner does not sell ROW to the state.
Out here in Arid-zona there are signs posted on the crossings “Track Out Of Service” when they’re no longer in use.
We do our crossing abandment a little backwards here in Salem, Oregon. On a major 4 lane street, the rails were removed years ago and the ROW sold and built on but the posts and lights were still in place at the crossing with an “exempt” sign on them. This year they removed the red lights and crossbucks but the steel post and exempt sign are still there. It’s kind of funny because at this point there is no indication that there ever was a ROW there except the posts and sign.
[:)]
Most RRs have a public relations office that will usually answer questions like this. Good luck.
[:)] [:)]
In Indiana, PA, this rail line wasd long out of service, but the crossings remained in the whole time (even though trees were growing on the tracks). Busses still had to stop at them until a little before the rehabilitation, they were given permission to pass through. Somebody complained, and they all had to stop passing over them. Still, the tracks remained out of service until 2004, when they were rehabilitated to start running coal trains to the Homer City power plant.
I also know that when some major road work was done at a crossing, the rails remained imbedded in the road, but there was no gap anymore, and the crossing signs were removed, a few years before the track was revived.
I have seen the exempt signs, and I also wonder some simple signs weren’t placed on them. I guess they just never wanted the hassle of it.
To be marked exempt, I think someone would have to make the effort to file the appropriate paperwork to the PA utility commission.
I don’t think the railroad is the one placing the exempt signs. I would guess that would be done by the agency (city,county,state,etc) that maintains the road. Except at crossings that have had the track removed on either side of the crossing, it might still be possible, maybe not probable, to see railroad equipment use the tracks. The crossing, even if only equipped with cross bucks would have to be flagged.
The removal of crossing flashers and gates may require regulatory permission. I know of one crossing that the gates and lights were maintained and we had to continue to whistle for a couple of months after the road had been closed. They had built an overpass and I was told they needed permission to remove the crossing protection.
Jeff
From the ‘‘Pennsylvania Code’’ of Regulations, Title 52 - Public Utilities, Chapter 33 - Railroad Transportation:
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/052/chapter33/s33.31.html
CONSTRUCTION, ALTERATION OR RELOCATION OF CROSSINGS
§ 33.31. Regulations and procedure.
Each carrier shall comply with the provisions of section 409 of the Public Utility Law of 1937 (66 P. S. § 1178), and obtain Commission approval of the construction, alteration, or relocation of every public highway and railroad crossing at grade, above grade, or below grade, unless the Commission has given its prior unconditional consent to an abandonment of service or facilities of the line of railroad upon which such crossing or crossings are located.
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/052/chapter33/s33.21.html
§ 33.21. General.
(b) No carrier shall, without Commission approval, remove the protection afforded by . . . any other protection against accidents, . . . or substitute or alter any existing form of protection at crossings, at grade, of the tracks of a carrier across a public highway, or the tracks of another carrier.
- Paul North.
Edgewood Road at Beverly?
I was actually thinking of one out by Valley Nebraska a couple of years ago, but Edgewood Road Xing at Beverly is another example. I didn’t even notice on the outbound trip a few trips back that the overpass was open. It was coming home the next day I realized the road had been closed and traffic was going over the bridge.[:I]
Jeff
My Dad once told me that there was a spur on the Baltimore and Ohio’s no-gone line to Springfield that led to a lumber yard. The city paved over the long-unused spur. Sometime later, a train came with a delivery of wood. The crew did not know what to do, called their supervisors, who told them to take the locmotive over the track anyway, as the the asphault would be soft enough for the wheels to separate. That is all I can remember of the story–but presumably, it worked.
Anyone have and doubts as the accuracy of the story that was told to my father?
Gabe and Anna (my daughter)
P.S. Should someone correct my spelling, I hope they are proud of themselves.
Probably accurate. Rail cars will go right through thin asphalt (probably spelled wrong) coatings
Many states have somewhat similar laws, giving a regulatory agency authority to determine crossing configurations, warning devices and any changes to them. FRA has been very careful not to do anything to preempt state
No doubts, if the circumstances were right - mainly that it was straight track, also preferably in the summer when the paving would be softer than right now, the layer was thin as Falcon48 noted, and also that the aggregate/ stones was not too big or too hard, etc. It would be rare that all of those factors would correlate against the locomotive - and if even then it wandered off the tracks a little bit, then the crew could just reverse and likely get themselves out of trouble and back on the rails - to await reinforcements from either the M-O-W guys, the lawyers, the city’s Streets Dept., or some other ‘Plan B’, etc.
- Paul North.