You O gauge guys may find this question too elementary, but with the new S gauge Polar Express set having the first locomotive that uses LionChiefPlus/FlyerChief, I am trying to figure out just how does the operating system work?
Is there a simple explanation? I have looked at everything on the Lionel Website, but I don’t have a clear understanding of how the system works on the basic level, i.e. is the signal sent through the rails? if you rewire your layout to run MTH DCS, will that screw up the use of Flyerchief/LionChief Plus?
Even worse, I wonder if the new LionChief Plus Universal remote will allow you to control conventional locomotive with LionChief Plus? Is there a easy way to retrofit a conventional locomotive to run on LionChief Plus?
Right now I have 3 different operating systems on my layout and I am not anxious to add a 4th nor do I want to buy a locomotive that I can not run without making other locomotives inopperable.
Lionchief plus loco will work with the remote supplied or conventional transformer.
The remote is coded to that engine, not the rails. The loco picks up power from the rails, but the remote controls it. The remote only runs that loco. It cant be used for other locos. You have one remote for each Lionchief loco.
As long as you supply near 18volts to the rails it will work.
Thanks Michael. I was wondering, though, how the signal gets to the engine. The S Gauge Polar Express engine has cast on handrails, so the signal is not tranmitted to the engine through the handrails which are antenae with TMCC and Legacy. Since the engine will run on either AC or DC the signal does not use a DC signal through the rails.
My concern is that, since I don’t know how the signal gets to the engine, I don’t know what would keep the signal from getting to the engine. I already have multiple control systems operating on my layout and will have another when MTH releases the F3’s with DCS in S Gauge. I am worried about compatability. I would prefer not to have to rewire my 25 year old layout. If there is an incompatability, I’d value knowing how to work around it.
It is a wireless remote control. The LionChief remote transmits signals through the air, and the locomotive receives the signals and adjusts speed, rings the bell, etc. depending on what you told it to do.
The hand held remote is battery powered. The locomotive receives power for both the electronics and the motor through the track. Like TMCC/Legacy or DCS, you need to keep the power to the track around 18 volts, and the electronics in the locomotive adjust the power to the motor to adjust the speed of the locomotive. However, unlike TMCC/Legacy or DCS, no signal goes through the track. REPEAT, NO SIGNAL GOES THROUGH THE TRACK.
It might be easier to visualize as operating similar to one of those little remote control cars you pick up at places like Radio Shack. A radio signal goes from the controller to the car. In that case, the car has batteries to provide power to the car electronics and motor. In the case of a LionChief locomotive, it receives power from the track.
Within 10 feet of my layout I have a cordless phone and a radio controlled garage door opener. I have never experienced any interference problems from anything.
You just put the Lionchief on the track. Supply 16-18 volts. Put some smoke fluid in the locomotive or turn off the smoke. Turn on the remote and you are off and running.
I read about you getting a new S gauge engine with DCS in it, as long as you have a DCS unit; the TIU you should be able to use it on one of the TIU’s outputs. You might want to ask MTH about compatibility between scales with DCS.
I have nine Lionchief Plus locomotives, five steamers and four diesels. I run two to six at a time for several hours every day.
First, there is a big difference between " . . .chief" and “chief Plus.” “. . . chief” works only with its remote control, and that remote control is quite simple: you have aknob that you turn to make the train go faster or slower. You can activate the whistle and bell. Speed control and features are otherwise like a conventional loco, but you are using a remote. You can run the loco on any track powered by the wall-wart that comes with a “. . . chief” set or
Sorry for renewing this older topic, I haven’t owned a train since I was a pre-teen and that was a N-Scale setup I had in my room. My father has a HUGE American Flyer collection, but his collection is all the vintage stuff. Needless to say he and I are both newbies to the bluetooth, constant power train variety. While researching my question I read through this thread about the same product I own and felt it was related enough I would ask here.
I recently purchased The Polar Express FlyerChief Ready to Run Set (SKU: 6-49632). Along with the ready to run set I purchased the AF FasTrack Outer Passing Loop Add-on (SKU: 6-49990) track pack. I have not set up my layout yet and I’m traveling for work for the next week so I’m unable to test my concern. I was curious if there was any need for me to add power injection on the furtherest parts of the track since I am expanding the original layout size. I have read online the original 36w wall pack does well for the original sized track but adding an expansion pack increases the original 6’ of track and could require additional power, but that is where the information stops. The Lionel dealer I purchased the two sets from is currently moving their store location so I’m unable to stop by and ask them for help until they get the new location up and running.
If additional power is needed, even if it would only be helpful for smoother operation, can you please recommend the best way to accomplish the task? I wasn’t sure if getting a more powerful Lionel wall pack would be enough or if adding a second FasTrack Power piece opposite of the first would be easier. If I add another power track section is it as simple as branching off the original wall pack? I’ve searched but I can’t find a straight answer. I’m very handy so soldering and working with power cords is of no concern to me.
Basically, what you are asking is whether or not you need more track feeders. As an O guy, I can tell you that it is hard to have too many track feeders. I doubt that this is any different than S Scale. For what you have, one feeder on the whole layout should be just fine. If you do need more feeders, the best way to do so would be to get another power section of track, and, indeed, place it opposite from the first. You could use a second pack or else do some jiggery-pokery soldering with the original one, though that probably would void the warranty. A more powerful wall pack wouldn’t really fight the issue sufficiently, as you would be fighting voltage drop. The easiest way to tell if you need more power is with a multi-meter. Measure the track voltage all along the track. It should be around 18VDC near the terminal section and probably drop slightly the farther you get. If at the farthest point it drops by two, maybe three volts, it would be reasonable to consider a second feeder. Lionchief/Flyerchief trains will run happily on most voltages, but slow down at lower voltages.
Wattage wise, the wall powerpack has enough wattage to power the train. However distance wise, your instincts are correct in that you loose power over distance and if you are expanding the layout it’s a good idea to add jumpers to the farther sections of the track. For a floor layout I like to use 18AWG bi-color speaker wire that Home Depot sells. Order some up along with a bag of female spade connectors to make jumper cables to the furthest locations where the power drops off.
If you expand with more lighted cars and accessories you can upgrade the power pack. I added so much stuff to my seasonal floor layout I had to buy the 75watt power supply Lionel sells. But if your just running the base set the 35w powerpack is plenty.
A couple of comments and a recommendation. The 6-49632 Polar Express set was cataloged from 2014 through 2016. The engine is the first run of FlyerChief engines and does not have Bluetooth. It will not work with the new phone based iCab App. The engine will run in conventional transformer mode; it will run in command mode with its own FlyerChief remote, with the 3 engine LionChief remote or using the new Legacy Base 3. The passenger cars use incandescent lighting.
The 35W power supply is marginal for the set, and if more illuminated cars are added it will be inadequate.
When assembling the track, I always use a tiny amount of conductive grease on each joint prior to pushing the track sections together. This improves the conductivity at the joint and prevents future oxidation. This helps to minimize the voltage drop. I use OX-Gard from GB but there are other brands.
The FlyerChief engines, unlike postwar conventional engines, have speed control so voltage drop will not cause the engine to slow down until the voltage at the pickup wheels reaches 13.5V. The first operation failure from low voltage is at 12.5V, the electrocouplers no longer fire. I can run these engines with 50 sections of track in the layout and one power feed with no operational issues. I suggest trying the expanded layout first with one power connection and see how it runs.
Accurately measuring voltage drop at specific points on a layout can be harder than it sounds. Just putting the meter leads across the track will show no voltage drop because the meter draws a very small amount of current. Run the engine past the meter connection and it will show the drop if it responds fast enough.
I had grabbed the SKU off the website when I thought I found the set I had purchased, but as it turns out I was wrong with that SKU. The Lionel box has the model number as 2217050. The box does show the train can be run using the Bluetooth remote or the LionelChef App.
I also notice the box the train came in states there is a 41.4w 18VDC wall-pack, which is different than what the owners manual states. Although the owners manual also states three sections of 10" straight track are included in the set, not the four pieces actually included so I am not putting a lot of faith into the owners manual accuracy going forward.
Before trying to add power I will do some testing as you outlined above. Thank you again for sharing your knowledge. I will report back with my results in case anyone else in the future has the same questions.
A 2022 set will have Bluetooth and Voice Control which is the set you now appear to have. The 2022 sets are improved from the older sets. The catalog description for the 2217050 set states it comes with a 54W power supply.
Your wall pack should have an electrical rating either molded into the back of the case or on a label. 54W is likely to be 3A at nominal 18V. Remember that you can safely use more ‘amp capacity’ because the load determines the current.
When the owner’s manual states that there’s three pieces of straight track, they’re probably counting the terminal track section as not straight track. Having just three pieces of straight track is about as useful as including an O Scale boxcar with the S Scale trains!
I will have to check when I get home and inspect the actual wall pack. The owners manual which I have in hand states 36-watt. The box which my girlfriend sent me a picture of states 41.4-watts and it appears the catalog description states 54-watts.
I also see now that the terminal track piece is listed separate. As stated in the owners manual, “Your set comes with twelve curved sections, three 10” straight and a terminal section."