How fast is modern rail laying?

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

I have been looking for this answer, but can’t seem to find one so I thought I would toss it out to the community: How fast can a new heavy freight rail line be constructed using modern technology? I don’t mean the relaying on track over an existing line, but a new line from the ground up.

(e.g.) If we had to build a new transcontinental railroad acorss the great plains region, but with all the benfits of modern technology and construction techniques, approximately how fast could this track be built?

Any information (and especially references) on this would be greatly appreciated.

2

Best I can tell you is they are laying new siding/ spurs for a factory here in MI and they have been at it for months. Started with clearing the land, survey, grading, re survey and then track work. Still have not cut into the mainline.

3

You didn"t say how much money you wanted to spend as schedule can be accelerated quite a bit if cost is not an object.

Supposing you wanted to build 500 miles of new line across open country, and political opposition was not substantial, it would be reasonable to plan on 36-48 months for permitting and 24-36 months for construction. Construction could be accellerated into the 12-24 month range by paying a very large premium, and permitting could be accellerated to maybe 24 months if there were very little political opposition and cost wasn’t an object.

That might seem slow compared to the early transcontinentals but it is actually much faster. Most people neglect to remember that it required many years to line up political support before any of those lines were built, and the lines were built to extremely sketchy standards with absolutely no mediation (grade-crossing separations, stream flow issues, etc.) whereas a modern line would be built 100% from day one.

S. Hadid

4

It took UPRR many months to put in that new connector @ Edelstein

5

Interesting question. To refine it a bit (this would likely be an MC question, or 1435mm) - let’s compare to that 10 mile stretch that got laid in a day way back when (which, I’m sure, would define ‘sketchy’ construction). Given appropriate approvals, adequate supplies of materials, and no special considerations (major cuts/fills/bridges/etc), how long would it take to lay 10 miles from first cut with a bulldozer (or other earthmover) to last spike, given todays methods and standards?

6

That “10 miles in a day” was laid on a prepared grade and of course was a stunt. If you wanted to do a stunt today, this could certainly be bettered. Working on a prepared grade today, and wanting to make good production but not take undo risks or spend gobs of money, I would be happy with 10,000 feet.

S. Hadid

7

You certainly would have to take into account the differences in the work day/week from then to now. “Their workday is from sunrise to sunset, six days in the week.” comes from http://www.nps.gov/archive/gosp/research/track_laying.html. Assuming an average of 12 hours/day sunlight, you are looking at a work week with almost double the hours of today. You can hardly expect that kind of work week from today’s laborers.

But you could definitely have all the pre-laying work done with local contractors well before the end of the tracks even gets close, so the rail by itself will be slower, but the whole project should be faster.

8

Way too many variables in play here. I’ll chicken out and second 1435’s opinion…

9

That 1869 10 miles in a day also was completely unballasted. Just rails and ties on a pre-prepared roadbed.

dd

10

[:)]

Going out on a limb here.

Assumptions. Great Plains only, no mountains. Most work can go in parallel with a separate contractor working every few miles. Two shifts/six days (leaves room for solving problems). Another railroad intersects at least every 50 miles, meaning that the longest track-laying stretch is 25 miles.

Computer design using geodetic databases and prepare contracts for below - 1 mo

Detailed surveying, electrical design, communications design - 1 mo

Local contractors make cuts and fills, prepare roadbed, build bridges over streams and roads, install and string poles and wires, install and test communications - 3 mo

Medium size bridge like for Arkansas River or Red River - 12 mo after detailed surveying

Large bridge like for Mississippi River or Missouri River - 24 mo after detailed surveying.

Lay asphalt bottom layer - 1 mo

Lay ballast - 1/2 mo

Put down ties, rail, turnouts and signals installation - 1 mo

Tamping, final ballasting - 1 mo

Testing - 1 mo

Total - 9 1/2 mo not counting medium and large bridges. If you have a medium bridge, then that’s the long pole at 12 mo, leading to 14 mo total. If you have a large bridge, then it’s 26 mo total.

However, this project may stress the supply of ties and rail. You may not be able to get all the ties and rail delivered until 9 mo after order. That would add 4 mo to the 9 1/2.

So, my best guess is 14 mo if you have a medium bridge or only small bridges, or 26 mo if you have a large bridge.

[:)] [:)]

11

No question on the stunt part - I was focusing more on the 10 miles as a distance, and looking for ‘real world’ numbers - the stakes are out (MC’s done surveying), but no earth has been moved. We’re assuming that leaves relatively minor grade work - some cuts and fills to smooth out wrinkles - sub-grade (foundation) preparation, maybe laying asphalt (if it’s to be used) then setting track and ties and ballasting. Given an “average” workforce, when can I expect to use my new track?

12

I had a project that placed about 3/4 mile of new connecting track through “virgin territory” a few years ago. It included a 50’ extention of an existing concrete arch culvert, a 24 foot fill on the 1000’ approach to the culvert, logging and clearing a 4 acre “borrow pit”, wetlands remediation, and re-planting. I put down centerline stakes around April and the first train (the ballast train) was on it around September. IIRC, the signalling wasn’t completed until a few months later. So five months for less than a mile means that it was too small to get any “economy of scale” benefits.

13

There are dozens of assumptions built in:

  1. We have only culverts and bridges of small and medium size (up to 80 foot spans, no pier more than 30 feet from streambed to top of pier). We have no bridges over a navigable waterway.

  2. We’re building 100 miles, so there’s some efficiency of scale.

  3. We’re wanting to get this done expeditiously.

  4. We don’t have any grade separations.

  5. We don’t have any ur

14

There you go! Based on assumption 2, that would be around 5-8 miles a month, although on a continuum, it wouldn’t really work that way since grading would go ahead of, etc, etc.

There was some discussion about that not long ago - I don’t remember the conclusions, only that it was a ‘new’ option.

15

I have seen this happen 2 times and if i understand you what you want is time to lay ties rail and ballast. a 4 mile section here took 2 years the hold up was a farmer who wanted a very high price for a 30 foot wide about 3/4 mile long section of farm and ditch area. then measurement of a switch was wrong in which the signal and tc switching electrical wireing was to short after these time consumption items was resolved then they layed the ties then layed the rails then put it together then i brought the ballast in then they tamped it and then we ran trains. so what i think you want is time from laying ties then rail ballast to trains 30 days, heck the new yard tracks they cleared for and put in took 1 1/2 years from clearing ground to moving the first rack train over it. that is 3 tracks just at 1.5 miles long each.

16

How about a ‘RECONSTRUCTION’ project? Specifically the KCS job going on down in Texas, I think it is the Wharton-Rosenberg [ the Tex-Mex rebuild ??] line KCS is constructing to get them off the Union Pacific. Anybody monitoring that one? It could be a case study to monitor for Mr. T…

P.S.

Mister Thingie, [#welcome] to the Forum!

17

Reconstructing on an existing right-or-way saves having to obtain right-of-way, and in some cases it saves having to build as much subgrade (depending on the width of the existing subgrade, and whether it was properly constructed to begin with) but otherwise nothing much is different than brand new. Permitting can be just as expensive and time consuming.

S. Hadid

18

Another place to get a benchmark of rail laying speed where grading has been done is the former B&O line from Pittsburgh to Chicage. CSX, in their infinite wisdom, removed one of the mains. Now with increased rail volume they are replacing (or have replaced) the second main. Does anyone have any timing benchmarks on this line?

Dick Watkins

19

Suppose, you hypothetically had a midwest regional railroad, that was going to become a major Powder River Basin coal hauler. Suppose also, through some absolute miracle, all the paperwork and approvals was in place. If this hypothetical railroad was given the green light tommorow, how long would it take to rebuild 600-700 miles of existing track, and build another 200 odd milse of brand new track through open country? And who, exactly, do you hire to do a job like this?

20

Murph, that’s not a hypothetical case, and I will not comment on specific railroads or specific projects, only on general industry practices and expectations.

S. Hadid