I’m getting into the hobby and I’m looking at a space of about 4’ by 10’ for a starter HO layout. I’m reading a lot in the magazines, etc. about how important track planning is before you start building away to make sure that you have enjoyable operations, etc. I’m seeing people talk about planning their layout for a year or more before they begin construction. I guess I’m curious what some of you have done when starting a new layout. Do you start with structure modeling and then work on the track layout, or do you get the tracks and benchwork built and then start on the scenery/structures, etc.? I already have a good idea on the structures I want on the layout, so I’m debating how to proceed. It’s kind of overwhelming when you’re just starting out, all the things to take into account. Yikes!
I found it very helpful to go to train shows and look at both layouts and available equipment. There are lots of ideas, and some may be interesting enough to change your plans a bit.
For my layout, I used the Atlas RTS layout-design program. It’s free and easy to use (www.atlasrr.com if you’re interested in the download.) Some people prefer XtrakCad from www.silub.com for the same price. It has a bit more of a learning curve, but it’s a more capable program. (FYI, after my dag-nabbed computer disk failed, I switched to XtrakCad myself.)
I started the Dreaming and Planning in the fall of '04, and I think I spent 2-3 months on just the computer design of the layout before I even bought a piece of lumber. This was time very well spent. Once I had my preliminary design on paper, I laid it out on the floor with old brass track and old structures, not connecting or wiring anything, just to see how it would look. This gave me a different perspective, and I made some changes which improved the appearance of the layout as a result.
If you don’t have old track or old buildings, I’d suggest making paper templates and laying things out. You might also want to use boxes, or make mock-ups of significant structures to get a 3-D impression of your plans.
And finally, at some point you’ll have to overcome “analysis paralysis.” Once you’re pretty happy with what you’ve got on the screen or on paper, start building. Many of us have gotten into the trap of spending too much time in front of monitor. The cure is a trip to Home Depot and the smell of sawdust in the air.
I easily spent 9 months planning my layout, changed my mind at least 100 times, ripped up track after changing my mind again, thought I was in over my head so I down sized it, wasn’t happy so I expanded it and now my wife and I have decided to sell the house and move out into the country.
Hi venckman
My last layout took (0) planning, but it took eight months to find the copy of the English mag Railway Modeler I needed to build the layout.
My last layout was a simplified version of a real branch line track plan made larger than the magazine plan and built on an 8X4.
You need the track plan before you can do anything without it you can do nothing the form your support structure will take is determined by the track plan, so is where it is best to run the wiring.
Where you need to have flat areas to build towns yards and stations is all determined by the plan some of the must have structures are also determined by the plan if you are building a specific place.
The main thing you need to start is how much room you have, your list of must haves and nice to haves, know your preferred railway system and pictures of typical features and structures of the system.
Reading lots of reading is a must and plenty of paper and drawing supplies.
The planing process is one of those things you have to do and if approached with the right mind set is nearly as enjoyable as seeing the plan become a real layout.
There is no set time frame for planning you just keep at it till you have the result you are happy with and fits in the space you have.
The plan will change when it moves from paper to structure as you will always find something that needs attention to make it work right in context of the result you want.
Whatever you do or don’t do make sure you plan in point where you can extend the layout with ease it will grow.
Make sure you can jump up and down on your bench work if you cannot it isn’t strong enough.
Don’t ask how I know!![banghead][censored][:(]
If you want to make some models you know are definitely going on the layout I don’t see why they cannot be built if that’s what you feel like
I spent nearly a year planning my layout. I was in the process of building a 15’x13’ room for my trains. Three months of planning was for the layout to fit in that room.
After talking it over with the wife I changed plans. The newly finished train room became the new rec-room and the prior, larger, 24’x19’ room became my train room.
It took me another nine months of planning to come up with a track plan that I liked. I started building it in February this year. I got the benchwork about 50% complete when I realized I was getting in over my head. At this point I stopped the building.
We went on vacation for two weeks so that gave me an opportunity to think about the space and what would be more practical. I decided to take apart the benchwork and start over with a smaller simple layout. I’m glad I hadn’t started laying any track yet but it’s bad enough to have to take apart what I’ve done so far.
I agree with MisterBeasley. Don’t get into analysis paralysis like I did. Make your plans then build your layout. My newly designed layout was planned while on vacation. Last night I started dismantling the benchwork. I hope to start building my new, simple, smaller layout by the end of the month.
Bill
Venckman,
I spent several months researching before I made my decision on what RR/era/region to model, then a few more months on specifics for my choice. I have a layout plan but construction issues have delayed my getting started.
So, instead of waiting, I built a 4X8 practice layout with a double loop of track connected by a few turnouts. This gives me a place to develop skills and run trains. All the while, I’m tweaking my grand plan and continuing to build structures. Everything I buy supports my plan and I’ve been able to avoid impulse buying.
This activity keeps me interested and allows me to utilize the time I have now so I will be that much further ahead when it’s time to start laying down structures and scenery.
The bottom line to me - you definitely need a plan before you start building or buying. It can evolve, but you should have the basics covered first. Good luck and welcome to the forum.
WARNING:
I forgot this before. When you go to those train shows in the planning stage, do NOT be tempted to buy stuff. You will buy things you won’t need. It’s human nature.
A couple of posts above have mentioned themes, roads and eras. This is as important as your track plan. If you design a track plan for a logging railroad in the 1930’s, it’s not going to work very well for current-day intermodal should you decide to switch. And what will you do with those Santa Fe Warbonnets when you settle on New Haven commuter operations?
First off, let me say…
to the forum!
I understand that a new layout can be a big undertaking. I planned mine for a bit under a year myself. Thing is, it’s a larger layout with multiple decks, so there was a lot that had to go into planning it (era, timeframe, benchwork, wiring, track plan, buildings, everything). For something smaller it shouldn’t be as big of a deal.
I used the Atlas RTS program to plan my layout and it’s worked out well so far. I say “so far” because I’m still building.
As for what to do first, I built benchwork, but there’s nothing that says you can’t build some buildings. It would actually help in planning to know the footprint of your buildings up front.
As for the benchwork, it has to be stable, but it doesn’t have to be able to hold up a house (unless you plan to actually crawl up on it). I model in N scale, so my trains don’t weight much (HO doesn’t weigh a lot more). The only thing that will ever go on my layout is the trains and scenery. Consequently, I use 1/4" luan and foam on 12" centers for my layout. I used this combination on my last layout and after 2 years there was absolutely no sagging or warping, so it works well with being 60000lbs of benchwork. (I think a lot of folks WAY over engineer their benchwork)
Let me turn you on to a couple of websites that might help:
http://www.chipengelmann.com/trains/Beginner/BeginnersGuide01.html
Hi.
I commend you understanding the necessity for planning. I also want to echo MR. Beasley’s advice about buying before your plan is ready. I am still selling stuff on eBay that I bought before I figured out what I wanted.
Personally, it took me 3 months and 19 major revisions before I settled on my plan. I actually had a pretty good working plan about revision 5, but I had things that I didn’t like bad enough to keep looking. Also, there are some pretty good designers here and I got a lot of ideas when I posted my plan in the Layout Forum. Some of the ideas were so good, it warranted looking at the plan from a new light.
In the end, with the help I got here, I think I ended up with a really good plan–one that focused entirely on my needs as a modeler.
The right answers really depend on how well you know yourself, and how willing you are to change based on your changing preferences.
Questions which drive at the heart of the matter that I like to get folks to think about when planning a layout:
-
How long (in weeks) can you go work on a layout without seeing a model train run?
-
How important to you is fidelity to a real or mythical prototype? In terms of region? Industries served? Operating style? Era?
-
How many hours per week, and $$ per month are you willing to commit to the hobby?
-
During your hobby time, which would you rather do (rank order the choices)?
-
build a locomotive or car from a kit
-
visit the club, LHS, or forums and chat about model railroading?
-
super-detail and weather an RTR loco or car to match a prototype
-
lay some track
-
scratch-build a structure
-
design and wire a computer-controlled layout
-
watch a model train rumble through a favorite scene
-
solve a switching puzzle
-
accurately recreate prototype operations
-
build some benchwork
-
make, paint, and detail some rocky terrain
-
pretend to be an engineer on a train from loco pickup to completion of run
-
plan the next layout
-
Answer these same questions a year from now, and see if there are changes
As you can see from the questions, just as in preferred operational styles, prototype, era, etc., there is wide range of answers as to how much time is spent in the planning phase. A couple of points to assist you in your case:
The smaller the space, the fewer the number of viable options for a layout. Also, far more small layouts have been built exploring those fewer options. So the chances are, for a 4x8 in HO for example, someone has already tried what you are considering and can provide some helpful hints and lessons learned.
The less self-discipline you have (a negative way of sayin
Welcome !! I guess the thing I would emphasize is you’re going to need to build a layout, run some trains, and generally get your feet wet in the hobby before starting your “lifetime layout”. I would start out with a fairly simple layout - maybe get one of the “World’s Greatest Hobby” track packages from Bachmann, Atlas or Kato - and build that. That will give you a chance to run trains, build buildings, do scenery etc. You can test out some things - see if you prefer steam or diesel, modern or old-time, etc. I think it would be better to do that now, rather than spend months and months trying to design a perfect layout.
(Plus, one advantage of the “track with roadbed” offered by Bachmann Kato and Atlas is that it’s easy to change or add track later as you get ideas or learn more about operation and such.)
[:)]
Fred Wright, I won’t annoy everyone and copy your entire post again, but man, that is some genious writing about the hobby right there.
There are so many facets of the hobby. We all want to be good at all of them. Operation is something I’ve never done. Having started 4 or 5 layouts as a kid (most with my Dad), NONE of them got to that point. So true, man.
You didn’t even mention handlaying turnouts! (which I know you do). (this, along with planning, have been the only parts of the hobby I’ve squeezed into my schedule the past few years.
Our hobby isn’t like watching sports on TV. There ain’t no instant gratification about it!!!
I have twice taken a single evening to work it out to a scale diagram that I could live with. I bought bench materials within a couple of weeks after that.
Here’s my story, so far. I had a strange situation-a 19x11 room with three entry ways AND a CEO that wouldn’t, and hasn’t, budged an inch.
I determined that I would go around the walls (24" width) with three drop-ins (two of which I hope becomes semi-permanent).
One of the guys in our group of 14 drew a track plan for me using my wants-double track main line, a yard, a switching area and an engine facility. All of this was a big undertaking for such a small area. Once he finished, I laid out the trackage to see if it would fit, most of which did.
However, the first thing I wasn’t satisfied with was the yard, so I revamped it a bit. The switching area had to go! I still haven’t finished with its revamping.
I built the benchwork last summer in a friend’s garage and brought it to my house. Amazingly, it fit with a little reworking. I put homasote on top of plywood this past winter and have been laying the roadbed and trackage in the yard and around one of the walls as of late-testing everything!!!
I have used the information found on this board to great advantage. Some of the guys have even emailed me if I asked them specific questions. The guys on this board are the best and I suggest that you use the search engine (which I don’t know how to use) to find things that might help you.
Be patient, don’t let setbacks upset you, and before you know it, you’ll be rolling. Good luck and happy railroading.
Welcome to the forum, hope you enjoy.
In my case, this was my third or fourth layout, and after dealing with the shortcomings of the others, I decided to make VERY detailed plans about how I was going to fill the 24x24’ garage. I read up on track planning, judged what kind of track and turnouts I was going to use, whether or not to have smaller size rails for the yard and passing tracks, just exactly how I was going to block the system (I’m DC, BTW), deciding whether or not to go with heavy bracing and plywood or homosote vs. light bracing and foam–just about exhausted myself getting ready to start construction.
Read an article in MR about light bracing and foam construction, decided on that. Raided every Home Depot within striking range for the 2" foam (before it became rare as hen’s teeth out here in California), used 1x2"s as bracing, and set to work.
Ended up with a layout that looked SORT OF like all of my planning, but actually quite a bit different. My problem is that I get anxious and want to do it all at once. However, the Yuba River Sub turned out to be a pretty good layout for me, despite the fact that I was changing the configuration every five minutes, and the original plans ended up buried somewhere under a mountain of scrap wood and foam, LOL! It’s not what I really wanted, but it’s better than I’d hoped for, so I’m pretty happy with it. And there’s still room for expansion, once I decide to do it.
But my way of building a layout is NOT reccommended, mind you! I’d really pick and choose from some of the advice that other posters have given. But the main thing, even if you end up tearing up track and re-designing it mid-construction, is that you ENJOY what you’re doing.
Tom
I think Mr. Spacemouse said it best in a long ago post. Your first car will tell you what you want in a car. Your first computer will tell you what you want in a computer. Your first layout will will tell you what you want out of model railroading. Quite a few folks here built a small layout first while planning for the “big one”. I think it’s human nature for people to plan for what they may never aquire. One of the benefits of hanging out on this forum is hearing and seeing what others have done. You may think you know what you want, then you see something else that tickles your fancy. Planning is exciting for awhile. Doing is much more satisfying for me. Good luck with your modeling endeavours.
I spent about two months designing my layout using Cadrail. I probably would have done it faster except that I was waiting to move into a new house and couldn’t actually start the layout. The layout is a double-decker 20x10 in a 1 car garage.
Anyway, there’s probably no right answer here. One thing you’ll find in this hobby is that there are many chicken and egg situations where there is no right order to doing things. While I would advise reading a bunch of track planning books before starting the layout, you will change your mind once you get started and you will end up changing your track plan. That’s one reason to go for a track planning software package. They make updating and revising your plan very easy.
I would suggest trying to get the mainline planned out and then starting construction. The location of sidings, passing tracks, yards, etc. will be driven heavily by scenic features and structures so trying to plan all of that out in advance is probably unnecessary.
Best of luck.
I have been planning for 30 years.
Only now I have a specific space. I have a small list of wants for that space. As long I can meet those needs the trains will run well in that space.
Im already running trains on Kato track in a corner of that space. I have posted videos despite bare wood and some dangling wiring. Get the trains running. Once you do, you will proceed.
Read everything. Read some more and when you finish, download off the net and read again.
DCC is a journey. Not a necessity for life. One man’s MRC decoder is another’s junk. I prefer QSI but am resigned to manufactors dumping QSI in favor of do it yourself programming where YOU get sound YOU want for YOUR engine off the internet. They have more important things to do like shuffle import papers from china.
Dont get me started on some of the problems I see in the hobby.
Dont let me scare you off. The Hobby is supposed to be something that keeps you off the street and out of trouble. It may even provide you with relief from stress and the associated medical problems. When budgeted properly it will be manageable.
One rule:
Be very careful what you buy. We aint seeing boxcars for 2.50 anymore. They are more like 30 dollars and built pretty well. In fact, some of my 15 to 20 car trains represent a thousand dollars rolling down the track. Im not saying this to brag but to emphasize that it takes alot of budgeting and time to buy good quality products that SHOULD last a long time.
Dont look now but 24 Athearn blue boxes just passed my desk with a combined total of about 250 dollars; not including the engine or caboose.
If you see something you like inside a hobby shop. Buy it. It will not be there the next time you visit. In fact the hobby has been moved towards pre-order production ONLY… if sufficient orders are met to satisfy someone’s need for profits in business. No longer are we carrying a nice product unless you find it on Ebay or online.
That little bottle of sc
I represent the other side
-
Decide what you want. I took 2 weeks to decide I wanted a canyon, a mine and a lumber camp.
-
Let those wants decide the layout. It took me a week to get a track plan on paper that hook it all together in the space I had.
-
Lay it out full size on the floor(table) with blue masking tape to make sure it works: no 16 in curves, no 5% grades, no # 1 turnouts etc.
-
Keep it simple at first.
-
Buy the track and road bed and lay it.
-
Run some trains.
-
Fix it latter. If you really like this, you will build another layout anyway. This is my 5th over 60 years. ( my best so far)
Not to offend the planer types, but to indicate there is another way for those few of us who want to get at it. I was running trains in 3 months. I am still changing trackwork, but that is the most prototypical part of my layout.
My layout had been in the planning stages for over two years, and is not the original plan as it has evolved over time and many hours of research have proven a plus in the “final” plan.
I use 3rd PlanIt track plan software to design the layout plans, and I have been using it for about 3 years now and find it a useful tool in creating accurate scale drawings. The plans can be rendered in 3D as well; this helps in the creativity and building stages, and is a great guideline when it comes time to actually build out the benchwork, roadbed, track, etc. I also print out the 1:1 drawings and use them as templates when cutting sub-roadbed and laying down roadbed and track, a very helpful tool!
The track plan is not based on any prototype track arrangements per se, but has its roots in typical prototype operations using a lot of compression. After reading many articles, books, and forums I have devised the plans below with much influence from the designing for realistic operations angle.
As stated earlier, this plan has been in the works for over two years, having originally created a plan based on local operations in the New Orleans, LA and south Louisiana area that included many features and operations that I have chosen to omit on the current plan. Having relocated to Wake Forest, North Carolina area in January 2006, mainly due to Hurricane Katrina, I have had to be a bit more creative in my overall operations plan since there are no Kansas City Southern (KCS) tracks near this area.
I have chose to keep the Southern and Norfolk Southern (NS) railroads as the main feature for operations on this layout, as there are many NS lines currently in use in this area. CSX is also a major player here, but at this time I have not considered it for inclusion. I will keep the KCS as a through freight and off site running only for added operation session interest. I will also have Amtrak passenger traffic moving between two stations as well there will be simulat