I know this is not prototypical in any way but someone asked me the other day of I could put all my locos on the railroad and run them arround. Other than the ability to do it the only reason to put a group of locos on and run them is to run pieces you have not run in a long time. You could put them all on and let them run for an hour or so.
Well here in lies the question. How many locos cam my NCE PH Pro system support ?
I believe it depends on the current draw for each locomotive as well as the current draw for any other accessories you have on the layout that draw from the power station. At 5 amps, the general answer probably is…a lot.
For laughs, I did that once. As bearman indicates, “a lot”. A non-sound decoder only draws around 0.25 amps and a sound decoder around 0.50 amps.
Rich
So, in rough terms, based on Rich’s numbers, 10 to 20 locomotives. It would also depend on whether or not your layout has enough track and that it is configured in such a way as to preclude any collisions.
And if you decide to go through with it, I suggest you sit there next to a switch which will shut down the entire layout in the event of an impending collision.
Ok so it sounds like I can put all 18 of my sound decoder locos on and give it a go.
Can I harm the decoder or command station in any way?
What happens when you put too many on?
EDIT: I mean 10
Maybe, maybe not. Jim Cramer said UP took 600 locos out of storage recently and people on Youtube webcams have seen big power moves lately.
each decoder will draw only a much power as it needs and is unaffected by all other decoders
the PowerPro command station will only provide as much current as it can and will shutdown automatically if the current exceeds 5A for more than 1/2 sec
Thanks Greg
Even with sound, the biggest draw in the loco is still the mootor, sooo ones sitting there not moving only draw a small amount of current. Sound a bit more than non-sound, unless yoou have the sounds muted.
But 10 would be a small number for a 5 amp system. I ran 10 locos at a time, 5 with and 5 without sound, on my Digitrax Zephyr, which is rated for 2.5 amps. You should have no problem with 10 locos with twice the available power.
–Randy
Thanks Randy. I have 18 so I’ll give it a go.
Take a video and show us how they run, especially if you consist them!
Back in the 1990’s the UP ran regular 25 unit power moves from LA to Chicago once a week because of a power/tonnage imbalance in the flows of engines.
I have seen 25-50 engine dead engine moves of engines going to be scrapped. The real problem moving a bunch of dead engines is getting all the brakes to work.
For less than twenty dollars you can build this DCC amp meter using a Harbor Freight multimeter on the 20ma DC scale. The ZXCT 1009 does the conversion.
http://www.circuitous.ca/DCCammeter10.html
I built two about ten years ago. One for me, another for the club NCE five amp Power Pro system.
I had four of the meters at about two dollars a piece at the time and the kits cost me a few dollars each.
I remember we ran I think at least ten locos and I think about three amps at least half maybe more were sound.
I tested the system with a rheostat and it shut down at about 4.97 amps.
Rich
Not sure about the PH Pro system, but I have a Power Cab and did damage it by running too many sound locos for too long a duration.
The folks at NCE were able to repair it at a reasonable price and advised me to either not run so many locos at a time or get a booster. At this time I am running fewer locos, but when I build my new layout, I will add a 5A smart booster.
Good luck,
Richard
wow!
if something is rated at a specified current, i would expect it to work at that current non stop, not for some unspecified amount of time. Makes me wonder about other NCE products. I have a PowerCab.
our femtocell shuts down when temperature limits are exceeded.
There ia nothing wrong with NCE products.
Here is what NCE has to say about current draw as it relates to the Power Cab:
OTHER CONSIDERATIONS:
A) You cannot run 3 Amps continuously for the PowerCab. It will overheat with the PowerCab shell deforming due to the high heat build up. It is strongly recommended you use multiple DCC circuit breaker with each set 2 amp trip current for the layout. The PowerCab feeds all of these circuit breaker which then feed the various parts of the layout. The DCC circuit breakers will isolate any short circuit and protect the PowerCab from over heating when there is a short circuit.
B) The PowerCab long flat cable will lose a lot of voltage and may get warm when running a lot of trains. The cable and associated telco RJ jacks and plugs are not really designed to support 3 Amp efficiently.
[:O] Well… that was a mess! I didn’t want to change all the locos to 3 so I changed the recalls on the cab to 6. also the locos (except for 3 in a consist are not speed matched.
I was doing pretty good until I got to loco #7 (consist plus 4) then some started to get too close to others and I was recalling-recalling-recalling trying to adjust everything [:$].
Finally I gave up. But it was fun. Probably wont do that again.
thanks Rich.
i like my PowerCab and other NCE products. But with the technology in such a product, I had expected it to protect itself … completely. Now I have doubts.
The PowerPro documentation says that the PowerPro is rated at 5A and will shutdown if a short is present for more that 1/2 sec. It’s unclear what it does if it operates at 6A for many minutes.
these products measure current and track time. couldn’t they shutdown automatically if they are operated above their rated current for more than an accumulated period of time for some limited time (don’t restart the timer if it momentarily drops below max current).
from the PowerCab doc: "You cannot run 3 Amps continuously for the PowerCab". How long can you operate it at 3A? When should you get worried? If heat is the problem, it would have been better if they added a temperature sensor.
Please don’t interpret this criticism as slight against NCE products. I like my PowerCab and would buy other NCE products. But now I’m glad I added the bulb that limits current to 1.5A.
Ultimately this whole discussion is academic. In my opinion, if you are going to run 10, 20 or 30 locomotives you are going to make sure that your system can handle the current draw with some room to spare. It doesn’t matter what brand you have.
https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/201479815-Step-1-The-Power-Cab
The 1.65 manual on this page only mentions a 3amp powersupply being the max power supply that you can use. I did not find those words in the manual.
Over 2amps, which is the stated capacity of the system.
If you were running 4 locomotives (HO) or 8 (N) per the manual above, you would never have heat problems.
Heat is generated by resistance. Learn about Ohms law and Joule’s first Law here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joule_heating
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm's_law
Overheating is only a problem when you exceed the rated capacity of the system.