Hi guys,
Is it known or can it be estimated the number of active model railroaders there are in North America (ie USA, Canada) ?
Is it more popular in Europe, in Asia (ie Japan, Australia…) ?
Michel D.
It would be great if we had a factually verifiable number, but I don’t believe anyone does. My best guess would be about half a million between Canada and the USA, but it isn’t that simple. Many of those are occasional players with rudimentary and cheaper products. I would say that the number of those of us who might invest an average of $1000/annum in the hobby, and always getting the more expensive engines and rolling stock, and in the more advanced DC or DCC, would be maybe 250K.
But, that’s just a guess. I couldn’t even validate any of it with any useful information.
-Crandell
I have never seen an estimate for active model railroaders, however that term may be defined. Not to hijack the thread, but it is for that reason that I do not subscribe to the notion that interest in this hobby is declining. Since we have no baseline number, there can be no accurate way to measure gains or declines.
John Timm
There are no recent figures publicly available. There is also disagreement over who to include, that is are the HiRail folks to be counted? The Lionel collectors? The Garden railroaders, and so forth.
Somewhere between 250,000 and 500,000 seems to be the most likely.
Enjoy
Paul
All I have to do is look around my LHS to see there is less of us! I know, it the internet. But when you have a great LHS like K-10 Model Trains that prices are close or less than you can buy one line makes you wounder?
Cuda Ken
Personally I know over 200 model railroaders in my little part of the country down here but only about a dozen will admit it in public. Most of the rest are what I refer to as ‘Closet Model Railroaders’ and they prefer to remain anonymous, so I won’t mention any locations or even first names.
See, I just can’t figure that one out. Why remain anonymous? Are there model railroader hate groups out there? Do model railroaders in your area of the country get hate mail and death threats?
Really, there is no reason to be embarrassed about this hobby. Yes, I’ve hidden the fact that I’ve spent too much money from my wife, but I’ll freely admit to being a model railroader! At high noon in the town square, if necessary.
Ken,
Your opinion is ancedotal and worth as much as mine because neither of us has any tangible statistics on which to rely. That said, my anecdotal “evidence” is the increase in the number of new releases from Athearn and Atlas over the past few years, along with new or relatively-new vendors like BLI, BLMA, ExactRail and Tangent, all of whom appear to be selling their products well.
John Timm
It’s funny that this comes up as I usually get one of three reactions when I mention I am a model railroader. #1 seemingly nothing but who knows what they are really thinking
#2. Aren’t you a little old to be playing with toys reaction,
#3 The wow thats pretty neat/cool reaction. the latest being one of the friendly cashier ladies at my Lowes. She said I thin that stuff is so neat and how she took her grand kids to see a big club layout at Christmas time. She asked me to bring in photographs the next time and I did she seemed genuinely impressed and asked me if her husband could give me a call as he had always been interested in model trains but didn’t know where or how to get started. So I helped someone on the road to financial ruin by getting him in to the hobby but she tells me he’s having a great time building his train layout.
Bottom line is who cares what people think and truth be known there are probably more of us then those who admit to it.
My feeling is that a lot of people are, or would be, amused to learn that we are model railroaders. I know that my 30-something son-in-law is at least mildly amused that I “play with trains” as he puts it. Yet, he plays Fantasy Football and Fantasy Golf with his buddies over the Internet. I think because we played with toy trains as kids, the idea of model railroading as an adult is juvenile to some people. I will admit that before I retired, no one at work knew that I was into model railroading.
Interest in this and other hobbies ebbs and flows. I guess the influence of computer games and I pods, and x-box and play station has eroded interest but I find that coming back and seeing something I built actually moving around a layout is much more satisfying and stimulating. Little kids are still awed by seeing a working model railroad layout.
I started the hobby after Christmas and I am more excited about that I ever thought I would be. I think if more people knew of the fun involved the number would quickly grow because it should appeal to just about anyone into anykind of modeling. The airplane guys who like building planes and their fancy radios should get all excitied about DCC and scratch building a house or factory, the r/c car guys should be excited about the maintance of tracks and cars and engines. And woodworker and electrians would be in hog heaven. Someone who likes gardening would be a natural at scenery. This hobby covers so many other facets than just driving a train.
All anybody that wants to know what my hobby is has to do is just look at my mail. I’m getting model railroad stuff in all the time. Some of it I keep, some I give away and some I trade. There’s no big secret. If somebody asks me what I do I just tell them I work with model trains. Being that I’m permanently disabled it’s a great use of my time and I enjoy it. My family and some of my friends agree with it and do what they can to support it. What’s not to enjoy? To anybody that says I shouldn’t be playing with trains I just say what would you have me doing? Most likely something I wouldn’t like at all.
My response: “Gosh, I hope not! In fact, I play with toy trains to keep from getting old!!”
(…and would like to add out loud), "You should do more playing. It looks like you’re losing ground.? [:-,]
I have had requests to see my layout or photos of it. I can’t tell you how many people’s faces light up, grown men, children, women (who either feign delight or are truly delighted when they visit and see the layout. My wife’s sorority group loves my layout…) The dental chairside assistants in my dentist’s office asked to see them. So, I think the idea appeals to a lot of people, but they are too embarrassed/self-conscious/otherwise busy or involved.
But like so many of you, I make no bones about the 5’8" kid in me. If they feel superior to me in some way, or would like to, that’s their burden, not mine.
-Crandell
The figure of 1,000,000 has been circulated by the industry from time to time, but that is utter nonsense unless it’s including Thomas toys and purchasers of similar items.
As pointed out upstream, much depends on just what you consider “model railroading” to include. If all inclusive, running from the Garden RR and Lionel people, through the Hi-Railers, to the true scale model folks, and include every range of interest between outright dabbler and master modeler, the sum total might be something like 300,000 or so. I know that Model Railroader magazine, itself, has never claimed a figure higher than 250,000 for combined O, S, HO and N scale modelers and that was back in a days when the hobby was definitely more popular than today.
Quite honestly, I don’t regard current numbers, as evidenced by what one sees on the Internet and everything else reliable I can find in print, as suggesting that the HO hobby musters more than perhaps 100,000 , with only a fraction of that figure accounting for folks with even modestly passable layouts. If you look around the Internet, the same names and images of the same layouts appear on site after site, so the Internet presence is likewise really much smaller than I expect anyone realizes.
CNJ831
And just where did you get those numbers? Magazine circulations? Walther’s monthly circular circulation figures?
There are what? three hundred fifty million people in the USA? You don’t think the number of railroaders could be in the millions? and still be few by number at, say 3 million? 5 million? What about those abroad who model and participate here in our forums? do they count?
If your 250,000-500,000 is correct no wonder why maufacturers are reluctant to manufacture items without pre-orders. Talk about your tiny niche hobby.
On Dateline last year there was a story and it was estimated that there are VERY CLOSE to 400,000 model railroaders in all scales combined. They said the most popular was O and is now HO of course. So there are 400,000 of us.
The 1/4 to 1/2 million figure, as a count of model railroaders, has been mentioned in many places. I think that for the United States and Canada the number is closer to the high end, if one includes everyone, including high-railers, garden railroaders, and railroad museum people.
There are probably around the same absolute number of model railroaders in the United Kingdom. With a population 20% of the United States, model railroaders are a larger proportion of the United Kingdom population.
Australia and Germany have around the same proportion of model railroaders as in the United States.
I heard an interesting fact from a late friend of mine who was involved professionally with 2 rail O scale. You could get reasonably all of the serious 2 rail O scale people together for a convention at a medium sized hotel. There are around 2,000 2 rail O scalers in the United States and Canada.
So, based on the recent attendance figures for the Amherst Railway Society show and National Train Show attendance, 25% to 40% of the “pathetic wannabee crowd” of 100,000 model railroaders in North America attended those shows in New England? Those are big shows, with big attendance numbers, but not that high a percentage. Which takes us back to something closer to half a million, maybe higher.
And the notion that somehow, one has to have a “modestly passable layout” to be a model railroader is, to be polite, absolute twaddle. While I’ll grant that the child playing with wooden trains is probably stretching the point, how about the 7 year old running Bachmann’s HO Thomas stuff in the basement? He is somehow less of a railroader than the great masters? Or the 30-something who just got back into the hobby and is still learning skills? You do a disservice to the hobby when you restrict its membership to your narrow-minded definition. Levels of skill, preferences and interests, and time invested vary in all hobbies, including this one. Level of interest, not ability, is what defines the hobbyist. Just as there are 50,000 amateur musicians who play in community orchestras for every member of the New York Philharmonic, there are 50,000 model railroaders for every John Allen. They’re all still musicians, and they’re all still model railroaders.
Firstly, one has to understand what such numbers are composed of, or represent, before throwing them out as examples of hobbyist numbers. If say 2