Hi Gang,
I just want to confirm my understanding of how to use Tortoises to operate a Peco Code 83 Unifrog double slip turnout.
If I understand the way the turnout works, I should be able to operate it with just two Tortoises. Is that correct?
Thanks,
Dave
It is!
Thanks Ulrich!
Dave
Dave, I had a Peco Code 83 double slip on my old layout and, indeed, it takes two Tortoises to operate it.
On my new layout, I have four Peco Code 83 double slips that I operate manually by flipping the spring loaded point rails.
As useful as a double slip is, it is one of the most difficult pieces of specialty track to operate. What I mean by that, is the fact that track routing is not intuitive. And it is difficult to set up a signalling system, especially on control panels. You will see what I mean as you attempt it.
Here is a four double slip setup on my new layout.
Rich
Hi Rich,
I’m not really enthusiastic about using a double slip turnout, but it does allow my locomotive service area to work very nicely so I’m going for it. It will be operated by either Tortoise machines or servos because I want to have full turnout control from both sides of the layout (wiring that will be fun!!![;)]).
I have a bunch of servos already on hand, but I am finding it a bit challenging to figure out how to operate them. I had hoped to use Arduinos to control them but I have hit a very frustrating roadblock with my basic Arduino set up so I’m going to leave it alone for a while. When I get back in the mood I will be asking ‘thems who know’ a whole bunch of beginner questions. The servos are incredibly cheap by themselves, but by the time you acquire all the necessary added bits from commercial suppliers like Tam Valley Depot, the cost is about the same as Tortoises. Those I understand.
Dave
Dave, I encourage you to remain enthusiastic about using a double slip turnout. It is a marvel of engineering, and it serves an important purpose on a layout, not only in providing multiple track routes but also in straightening out what would otherwise be tight S-curves.
For sure, it is easier to wire a double slip if you use Tortoises. I speak from experience. The only real complexity with double slips is signalling, whether trackside or on control panels.
There is a learning curve to selecting the correct route with a double slip. However, with practice and repetition, it starts to come more naturally.
Rich
Hi Rich,
Actually I am quite enthusiastic about using a double slip even though it wasn’t my first choice. In fact, I had better be enthusiastic given the price of the little beast![swg]
As far as signaling goes, the switch is located entirely within the service facility so I actually don’t see a need to signal it. The control will be up to the wee guys in the service area control tower.[swg] I do want to be able to control the double slip from both sides of the layout, so there will in fact be four toggle switches involved, but I already have the dual toggle control wiring thing worked out. I won’t take credit for that. One of the guys at my old club figured out how to do that and has been generous enough to share the information with me. I’m going to try to keep my control panels as simple as possible but I would like to have the chosen route(s) illuminated by LEDs.
Dave
I have several Shinohara double slips on my layout. I presune they are similar to a Peco in their point arrangement.
Yes, two Tortoises or any other switch machine will operate it. The main difference in the Peco or Shinohara is that the entrance and exit points aren’t as simple as the early Roco/AHM type slip switches where you had two simple choices:
)( or X
In my first installation I used a four position push button, kind of like a radio station selector in a “vintage” car.
Double Slip control-PB by Edmund, on Flickr
You can see quite clearly that the C~B route is selected and the corresponding LEDs are illuminated green.
I assigned routes A. B. C. and D. Each push of the button would cancel the previous latched postition. This, in combination with LED indicators on the panel made route selection quite logical.
When I had to install three more double slips I could no longer find the exact latching pushbutton switch so I went with a four-pole, four position rotary switch.
Double Slip control by Edmund, on Flickr
This one (above) is fairly recent and I have been lax in applying labels [:$]
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2doXstS][img]https://live.staticflickr.com/1920/4620475
Hi Ed,
That is an interesting option, but I wonder how difficult it would be to wire dual rotary switches on either side of the layout. Using toggle switches will be complicated enough given that if a route is selected from one side of the layout and then changed from the other side of the layout, the toggles on the first side of the layout will not be lined up properly. It just dawned on me that momentary toggle switches with appropriate circuitry might be a better option. What do you think?
Dave
That does throw a bit of a challenge in the works, Dave. My first instinct is to insert a four-pole double throw switch which would be used to select “home” or “remote” control. The LED indicators could then be driven off one of the Tortoise auxiliary contacts.
The other solution, of course, would be to use one of the DCC controlled route selectors, like a Hare or Wabbit, that are now available and weren’t an option when I wired mine some 25 years ago.
Some discussion here:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/265625.aspx
Good Luck, Ed
I am forced to admit that my memory is getting really bad. I started that thread!! Anyhow Ed, thanks for the reminder!
I think I’m in a race now. What’s getting worse faster? My memory or my back?!?[banghead][banghead][banghead][|(][swg][(-D][(-D][(-D]
Cheers everybody! Have one on me!
Dave
I think with humility, in US you have a missunderstood about a double slip; they are sparse and less used in US than in Europe were I lived; they are numerous of them in any size.
In fact a double slip has only two aspect it’s a crossing or the continuity of a curved track which go to the left or to the right depending from where you are coming.
You can’t use in the same time the crossing and the curved form, it’s impossible without deraillement.
In consequence it really don’t need a four position control to use it.
I have a few on my layout and I use only a two position switch; one putting the double slip in the crossing form, the second putting it in the curved form.
You don’t need to have more position, since only one train at a time can travel trough the double switch going to a crossing route or continuing through it like in a curve
My two motors, in my case Hankscraft display motors are wired together so when I move the toggle, only one of the two forms at a time is actived.
Simple and easy to use; I use old modified Arnold Rapido double slip switch control to have the symbol which are lighted now with a led; these old push buttons show a cross and two curved line; just what the double slip is.
This is far enough to know the position of the slip and where the train is going.
I use DCC control, to avoid any mistake, the double slip is wired following DCC diagram; signaling is easy with some relay and by using the position of the double slip; the cross close signal for the curved route, the curved route close the signal to the crossing, since only one way is used at a time , meaning a train coming from left to right or coming to right to left the signal are opposed and lighted green or red following the side this train is coming
These are the old Arnold Rapido push buttons I use just as a reference with the illuminated symbol on my panel.
define seldom. I think the comment needs a little unpacking and qualification.
By seldom, oups error
They are sparse by comparing in Europe.
We use a lot of them in yards, station, even on main line
I am getting confused here… not too hard to do to me.
I have never used a double slip switch, but I was planning to on the next layout.
I own one Shinohara Double Slip #6 code 83 turnout. I always assumed it could be controlled by two Tortoises wired to a single reversing DPDT toggle, and then selected to be either “X” or “)(” operation.
Is this not true? Does each Tortoise need to individually select the pathway for each entry/exit?
-Kevin
No really not, I explained it in my previous answer, the two motor must be wired so they both together give one or the other form of the double slip meaning a curved track or a crossing track, you don’t need more.
So in a position the two motors move the points to be a crossing, in the second they move the points to be a curved track, so they need to be wired together.
I mentioned the Roco/AHM type double slip that Magnus is refering to.
The point arrangement is different (I’ll show examples when I find another thread we had here a few years ago)
Here:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/273358.aspx
IF I could get away with two postitons rather than four I most certainly would have used only TWO.
This example of the common “Euro-style” double slip can be thrown as Magnus is saying:
The Shinohara, and I have to believe, the Peco are not arranged like this and require FOUR distinct movements of the points.
Lots of misinformation spills over into some discussions. One fellow was calling these “automated crossovers”.
Perhaps not in abundance, but when required. I’ve seen many main-line applications in U.S. as well.
Do the south leads to Chicago Union Station have more double slip switches, rightly called "puzzle switches", than any place else? by Marty Bernard, on Flickr
I got the double slip turnout today. I still have to put my meter on it to see what the leads coming off the bottom are connected to.
I have decided to not bother with having the double slip controls on both sides of the layout. Logic suggests that I will only be operating the service yard when I am on that side of the layout. That will allow me to use Ed’s rotary switch method for control. Problem solved.
Thanks Ed,
Dave
Ed - you are wrong! If you check the picture in my first answer, you see that the Peco crossover switch is set up very similar to the one shown in your picture. You can select either a diverging route or a straight route through the switch.
I can’t tell anything from that picture, even enlarged.
-Kevin
