(Initial posts from a year ago - see end post for project status)
Greetings from a Toronto Canada newbie - my first post to your excellent forums.
Our six year old desparately wants to move up to a “real train set” (yes, he owns lots of wooden Thomas, Plastic TOMY, LEGO trains, regularly visits train shows around the province, owns all the Thomas videos and has visited Strasburg to ride Thomas). So his dad and and his uncle have decided to start his first set. No, not just going to buy a starter set! We’ve collected lots of EZ Track, plastic buildings from an older layout and researched many different 4’x’8 on plywood layouts - all in secret.
The problem - how to assemble our ideas in the basement of one house, then move it to the another house on Christmas eve?! Since we’re foregoing fancy scenery (for now)…
Should we just paint the board brown, green and black (roadways), layout the track and buildings, keep the wiring on top of the table, test, then take apart and reassemble?
Can we split the board in two with a piano hinge to ease in transport? (We’re following the NMRA guide for building the frame)
Should we go dc or dcc (I can see more than one person running the layout)?
Should we stay under one manufacturer (Bachmann) for now to ease the learning curve?
Is it easier to just follow the “worlds greatest hobby” layout DVD (??I’d love to see some results of others that tried this promotion) or should we introduce step 1 of a more operations layout - like John Armstrongs Penn. & Potomac referred to in many posts - and evolve the layout to that plan?
Yikes! [:0] Our budget and our time! [:(] Maybe he won’t get his layout until his birthday!![}:)]
Derek
“…model trains are much more involved than Scalextric model race cars.”
First olf all, [#welcome] to the forum! Good to have you aboard! [:)]
I know that many will pipe in with suggestions. Let me start by saying that you shoiuld think about the pink or blue extruded foam insulaton (EFI) for the base - particularly for the sake of dad and uncle’s backs. It will make for lighter benchwork and easier haulage. if you click on the link at the bottom of this post, you can see what I did: It’s a 4 x 8’ sheet of 1-1/2" EFI surrounded and supported by 1 x 3 lumber, on 2 x 2 legs.
[Update: 14:21 EST - Derek, it looks like the server at Railimages.com is down at the moment. Keep trying.]
(Derek, even though it looks like Railimages is up and running again, here’s the table design I was trying to describe to you
(If you right click on the picture, it should enlarge for you.)
With bracing it’s very strong but lightweight. You shouldn’t have any problems finding it in Toronto. You could probably make two 4 x 4 sections and attach them together with a long piano hinige so that the layout is collaspable.
Hope that’s a help…
Tom
P.S. Derek, it’s good you are thinking the DCC route early on. Not a necessity for Christmas, but would be nice down the line.
I’ve never had any good experience with using piano hinges on a layout like that. I’d recommend building two sections 4x4 feet and bolting them together. Span the track gap with a 6 inch straight section. Plus moving the 4x4 sections one at a time will be much easier on the back(s).
Paint the board a basic green and get him some black poster board to cut into strips for streets. He’ll have much more fun setting up his own “towns.”
I’d still come up from underneath with the wiring. Drill holes thru the cross pieces so it doesn’t dangle down and get damaged in transit.
For a starter set, stay with a simple track plan, maybe a loop with a passing siding and a spur. Isolate them with plastic railjoiners and use modular switches like from Atlas.
I’d stay with basic DC for a starter set.
It’s not really necessary to stay with one manufacturer, except for the type track you’re using. With the tight curves (a 4x8 will have, at the widest, a 22 inch radius curve), keep to shorter freight and passenger cars (for examples, scale Superliners will cause you problems on that tight a curve), and diesel models with 4 wheel trucks.
Either 4x4 or 2x8, which ever will be the easiest to move in and out of the areas. Frame completely around each half. Then drill holes through the adjacent frame pieces and bolt them together. Make one piece of track bridge the gap between the sections and then as you put it together, leave the bolts loose, fit in the track section then tighten the bolts to connect the two pieces.
By all means paint the top green and paint on some roads. A 6 yr old will want to drive cars around the roads and play cars and tanks on the layout too. Don’t attach all the buildings. Let him be able to rearrange the buildings some. Exploration and creativity is part of the fun.
I’ve been batting around the same idea, but this layout would be for my dad. Before I could give him a train, I have to convince him and Mom to clean up their basement some !
I will agree with all of the above except for one thing… Even though it is for a small child (and the big child too, C’mon, Admit it [:D]), you mention running more than one train being likely… For that reason alone, I would jump right into DCC… There are a Lot of DCC threads going on in the forum (and in the General Discussion) forum that could help you choose a proper one… The start up cost is a little higher but in the long run (and some will disagree here), it’s much more enjoyable to operate the trains. .
If you want to check out my take on getting started (as well as why I suggest DCC to start)…
I don’t know if this is much help, but your question brings back memories of Christmas 1980 when I was five. My father and Uncle built a 4X6 (which I still have today–although expanded now to about a 5X9) with removable legs. It is plywood with four removable wooden legs on casters. They built it down at my Uncle’s house, transported it up in a truck Christmas Eve, and reassembled the legs at our home. I remember waking up late Christmas Eve and hearing hammering going on–I thought it was Santa and kept my eyes shut in bed. I was totally surprised Christmas morning!!
The layout of the table survived until 2005. The track was Atlas with above the table switch machines. The grass was the Life Like grass mat–It survived many Matchbox cars driving across the landscape! The roads were cut out pieces of thin shoe box cardboard with white dashes painted on them. The buildings were the cheap Life Like buildings. Water was blue paint.
Now the table has about 4 inches of blue/pink foam on top of the plywood with a valley in the heart of the layout. Hopefully, when my son is five (he is 9 months now) I will have the table completed and he can use it–he already enjoys watching the trains run by.
I know this doesn’t really answer your question, but maybe this will give some more ideas.
Derek - Time 'til Christmas is short. Do yourself a really big favor, being a complete newbie, and follow the World’s Greatest Hobby DVD’s instructions to the letter. That way everything will come out and work correctly on the first try. Also purchase the WGH track kit so you’ll know that everything works flawlessly together. Build a layout frame per the WGH DVD instructions to avoid any flexture when moving the layout from house to house at Christmas and later storgae. For scenery, just go with the basic green, brown, and black (roads) paint for a starter and some simple plastic snap-tohether buildings. Your first effort can hardly result in John Allen perfection! By all means DON"T hinge the lay! Going with DC will be perfectly fine for operating. I’d hate to be trying to figure out a glitch in DCC programing on Christmas morning with the child looking over a shoulder asking why the trains don’t run! Remember, the layout is intended for a six year old, so don’t over do it! If there’s continuing interest by the child and yourself, something more extravagant can be built at a later date.
All thoughful advice…especially if you are only semi-skilled and relatively new to things trains.
Christmas is stressful enough without idealizing this in such a way that you look back on it in six weeks time with disappointment. Time is so short right now that the KISS approach is surely the wisest.
My [2c]:
If you anticipate ever running trains, you OR your son, for the foreseeable future, you will certainly evolve to DCC. Why spend money now on DC, and either chuck what you have in the way of locos and electronics when you do convert, or go to the hassle of getting things converted at additional expense and loss of train time? Start correctly right away, as Jeff advised above, with DCC. It will be one less adjustment over time, will get you educated in the controls right away, your son, too, and will allow you to focus your energy, as you get the spare moments, on improving the layout.
As for the layout, I would elect for either the foam OR 1/2" ply at the moment. Support each as seems reasonable for integrity against abuse and sagging, and spend the time on making the surface look pleasing and fun. This way, there is no rush, learning curve, undoing, and potential disappointment. All before Christmas!
If you are reasonable and easy on yourself, your son will ultimately be the beneficiary, and that is what your goal was all along…right?
Is there room in mom and dad’s bedroom for a narrow layout along a wall? 2 feet wide and as long as a wall? With lots of switches that lead to spurs with a building on them?
And would mom put up with it? Lol.
Each evening you could close the door and work on the layout.
That would rule out a loop for a continuous run, though … and the boy might want that.
It would not be under the tree Christmas morning, but one of those big rolls, 15 feet long, of Christmas wrap paper could cover it in your room. Big bow on top.
i say go for dcc right away , you can pick up dcc equiped locos so no added work is required there , and building a 4x8 layout for dcc is pretty simple anyway . it will be slightly more expensive than going dc , but less expensive than switching later
use 2x8 sheets of foam , they’re available from home depot in that size , and i think a 2x8 is easier to move and store than a 4x4 . foam is so much lighter and easier to shape then plywood that you’ll thank us later for the advice [:)] . be sure to use latex paint on the foam , and use latex caulk to stick it to the frame , stick track to foam etc. it’s almost all purpose.
where is your local hobby shop (LHS) ? mine is george’s trains on mount pleasant rd , north of davisville http://georgestrains.com/ . lots of good helpful people there
Just my [2c] late in the thread but it hasnt been mentioned yet, but from my experience of my own 6yr old and others I would make the base out of Ply and not foam.
6yrs olds have a very short reach and with a 4x8 if he is rearranging the buildings he will need to get on , or lean on the layout, and he will do this many times.
He will find it very hard to poke holes in 1/2 ply with a pen/pencil/other object.
while driving his cars around the roads damage to foam could be substantial
kids are kids and ply would give him more opportunity to actually play with his trains without you worrying about damage or placing too many restrictions on his play. The more rules there are the less fun it is.
2 pieces of 2x8 1/2ply really wont be that heavy for the 2 of you to move, esp if theres nothing really on them but a simple frame, some track, and paint.
Thanks everyone for your posts to date. Being new to the hobby, I am overwhelmed with the amount of quality information available from so many varied, passionate sources! All your ideas are appreciated - I’ll keep you informed about what happens. I also have other questions that I’ll post under new topics. Next step, off to Georges Trains to learn about dcc options for the controller and engines. [^]
Its a year later! Time and money well spent speaking and reading all the expert advice. We just had our first test run. I won’t explain all the rationale here but the 5 cent tour is:
Took all my sons wishes, 2) adapted a published 4x8 plan, 3) plan grew into 5x9, 4) acquired EZ track, rolling stock, DCC engines, Bachmann Command control, Atlas 56 switches, 5) designed lighweight foam benchwork per Robert Schleicher book instructions, 6) add some basic removeable scenery and roads 7) Dec. 23 to be moved for the Christmas Day present reveal!!
First test run!Entire layout weighs less than 3/4" 4x8 plywood so it can be easily moved to another house for Christmas present! Then the scenery will begin.
Derek, it is great seeing your update and excellent progress. Looks like fine work, and it should be a big hit.
One big word of caution: your rerailer piece and that straight along through the turnout going away from the camera is much too close to the edge of the table to prevent your costly engine(s) from tumbling all the way to the floor. I strongly suggest, so as to prevent this accident, and the inevitable damper it will have on the Christmas mood for everyone, by either rethinking this area before it is too late, or building some sort of thin masonite or plexiglass lip up at least 1.5" higher than the tracks. Young hands, and your older ones, will almost certainly have an oops, and EZ-Track turnouts have been know to throw a locomotive off the rails. That is one sure place where it could happen…right there at table’s edge!!!
Thanks Selector - yes, the interchange track is a little dangerous! Thanks for reminding me to install the plexiglass lip. Also, to protect for perimeter spills we initially will have a 2" high x1/8" thick foam barrier around the entire layout (using thin roll of foam used for sill plates secured with popsicle sticks between the foam base and the fascia).
My sons surprise Christmas present is ready - the paper temporary landscaping is in place!
I think my seven year old will be pretty excited. It’s his and my first layout. And to think we have kept it secret from him for over a year!
All we have to do is disassemble it for moving on Christmas eve!!
…thirty minutes later, we’re done!
We can now easily add the 3" plexiglas shield around the layout, wire the 18 turnouts to the switch panel, hook up the train sound effects speaker system and finish testing/converting couplers on the rolling stock. In the new year we’ll replace the construction paper landscaping with proper roads, water, bridges, a mountain/tunnel, container ship and crane, engine house…etc. etc. etc. etc.
I assume you’ve got under-table wiring. It’s probably a good idea to protect it from prying hands, not necessarily your son’s, but more likely his less-“evolved” friends.
Go to an appliance store and get a corrugated cardboard box that a refrigerator came in. Cut a piece or two the size of the layout, and staple it to to underside. This will hide the wires and protect them from both little hands and from snagging during transit.
