Looking for any advices on how to make water scenes look more real. Really looking for something between smooth surface and rapids. Open to all new ideas.
Thanks Dave
Dave,
there are several methods for a ‘ripple’ effect which is what I think you are aiming for.
1: pour the water using epoxy or a similar product to obtain the smooth water, to achieve the ripples stipple on either ‘modgepodge’ or gloss medium, these dry crystal clear and the stippling leaves a ripple effect, you may need a couple of aplications for your desired effect. (both available at craft stores)
2: use a textured paint to cover the water area either stippling or with a roller to achieve a ripple effect. Paint the area to reflect water depth with shading, when dry cover with a high gloss polyeurathane or varnish for a wet look (waterbased will not yellow).
In both methods you can dry brush white onto the high spots to accentuate the ripples more. As always trial and error on a scrap piece is a good idea.
Hope these ideas help, I am sure you will get some more methods from others.
Have fun & be safe,
Karl.
I think that envirotex makes a product that will simulate rapids… so you could use that, or probably even clear acrylic or something (gloss medium?)…
as for “smooth” water, any of the commercially available water products should be able to do that without any more work than “pour into riverbed & allow to cure”
Hi Dave 777
When I did water having sealed and smoothed out the base I painted dark to light earth tones starting in the middle with black for deeper water.
I then gave the whole lot a coat of Tamiya clear blue once that was dry added an feature bits I wanted in the stream or river, I then slowly filled the water using gloss artists varnish a layer at a time leaving it a few days to dry a pin is handy to remove air bubbles.
Once you put enough layers in over a few pours the draw back is you have to wait a week at least sometimes longer for the whole lot to dry properly.
But the result is a nice water effect with ripples that will reflect the surroundings
A constant check must be made for bugs and these must be extracted from the varnish and a little more tipped in where the bug was extracted from and over the edges of the tacky hole so you don’t get unnatural edges.
Its time consuming but works well
regards John
You could use Acrylic Gloss Medium over top of Enviro-Tex:
Gloss Medium also works well over a painted base. It may take several coats to build up the desired shine and wave structure though. I’ve also had great sucess with a sealent called Lexel. Behind the dam is a painted base and gloss medium, while the water over the rocks and below the falls is Lexel.
You could also use Acrylic Gloss Gel or Paste, which is a thicker version of the gloss medium, but I’ve never tried it. I don’t like WS water effects. I found it difficult to apply, and is never really dried clear.
Nick
You can make some rock outcrops with plaster or modelling clay before you pour the water. Also before pouring it you can include some logs, either leaning into the stream from the bank or farther out from it and breaking the surface from below. Sunken logs will look more believable in the varnish rather than added on as an afterthought.
You could paint your deepest parts dark green and your shallows creamy-grey, maybe. If the water is to be clean you can use a fine brush to outline some submerged rocks in the shallower parts. Try to avoid painting the entire outline or it could look overdone.
My only experience at modelling water is with high gloss polyurethane varnish, but I think all of the suggested materials can be worked to make ripples. I had to make mine several times as the varnish was setting. My river is probably too calm for your needs, but I could have put many more ripples in if I’d wanted to. If you want that flowing look be sure to add ripples around logs, rocks and bridge pylons, and probably some in the shallows. And make sure to put some rich green foliage close to the water.
Mike
Anyone know how George Selios did his water under his rolling lift bascule bridge on the F&SM? The water effect there is superbly done. It has the very real effect of moving water with a current. How did he do that? Cheers Barry
In answer to the question on how George Sellios did the water in his harbor scene on the F&SM, I went back to my copy of the video by Allen Keller, “Great Model Railroads”, Vol. 2, 1988 in which Sellios described his methods for the water.
He started by pouring a soupy mixture of Plaster of Paris into the harbor area. Using a floodlight postioned above the harbor, he caulked any place where light came through under the harbor area. He did not say if he painted this plaster bottom after it set. He then added Floquil coach green to a mixture of EnviroTex and poured the mixture into the harbor bottom. He put it in in the morning and by 3-4:00 PM, it was set enough for him to pick at the surface with a screw driver to simulate waves.
Apparently he didn’t like the color of the EnviroTex layer, so he used Dave Frary’s method of coloring “gloss matte medium” ( I believe he meant to say gloss medium, since matte medium would have a flat finish and not look like water) by mixing brown and green acrylic paints into the “gloss matte medium” in a cup to get the color that he wanted. He then applied the colored “gloss matte medium” with a large brush to the surface of the EnviroTex layer. He installed the boats, etc. while the “gloss matte medium” was still wet so they looked like they were in the water.
I’d suggest you look at the book by Dave Frary, “How to Build Realistic Model Railroad Scenery”, 3rd. Edition, pp. 86-97 for more info on modeling water.
Bob
From decades of canoeing, the ripples in real streams and rivers don’t just pop up out of nowhere, and they don’t appear in random patterns.
A ripple or set of ripples occur where the horizontal speed of the water increases enough to overcome the weight of the water involved and push it up above the otherwise flat surface. Two major types of ripple sets are underwater obstructions, and obstructions that break the surface.
A rock, just under the surface will make water go around it, and some water will flow over it. Once the water is pushed outward around the rock, it continues outward, and from above, the ripples will look like a V shape, pointing upstream, gradually dying out some distance downstream from the rock.
The water that flows over the rock will bulge up directly overhead, then drop down immediately downstream, then bounce up and down in a series of gradually decreasing buimps as it is reassimilated into the normal flow of the stream.
Projections which break the surface will mostly just create the upstream-pointing V shaped surface ripples, with some froth or turbulence just upstream of the obstacle where the water hasn’t yet decided which side of the obstacle to bypass.
Two projections side by side will each create their own upstream pointing V. At the point downstream where the two intersect, they will “fight” with each other. From above, this will appear to be a downstream pointing V, of relatively smooth water, until where the ripple sets meet, and there will begin a series of sometimes surprisingly large up and down standing waves (the water moves through, but the waves stand still) that gradually get smaller and smaller as they move downstream from the obstacles. These are created by phase reinforcement and cancellation as the ripples from the two obstacles meet and interact.
In canoeing, we were taught to “aim for the V”, the ones with the point leading downstream, as this would put us in the theoretical center of any pair of obstacles, and avoid