I’m considering using shelf brackets for my next “around the room” layout. Does anyone have a good feel for how wide a layout I can make using this type of support system? I’m not too worried about weight as I plan to use foam for much of the base. I’m guessing that my layout will extend slightly beyond the brackets in order to facilitate a fascia.
Thanks in advance.
Ed
I think the answer comes down to how far you want to reach over to work on it. You can make supports that will work farther than you can reach. I’d suggest starting with two feet in you planning, and see whether you want to try for more or not.
Not having done much exploring yet, do they make shelf brackets that are 2 feet wide? How stable are they?
Yes, they do. They’re a heavy inverted “L” with a diagonal brace. Quite stable as long as you anchor them to a wall stud. I bought mine at Home Depot.
The other choice is to make your own (depending on what you need then to look like). You can make them for next to nothing out of 2x2, 1x3, and a little 1/4 or 3/8 plywood.
The basic question is how far can you reach? And that will dependent somewhat on the layout highth. You might try making a small mockup and try various highths and depths.
Also remember that to reach the back of a corner, you will need to reach about one and one-half times as far as normal.
Have fun
Pay close heed to the comment about how far you are prepared to reach. Early on, when you may be laying scenery, it may not be too bad as you are keen and excited about getting it all up. Later, though, once you find yourself reaching way back to pick up items, or to correct track faults, you will not be very keen. So, what will you have to reach for as time goes on? If there is nothing but dust collecing trees and scenery back there against a backdrop, then maybe 40" isn’t unthinkable. But you should not be reaching for things beyond about 28". That is the farthest away anything requiring your occasional attention should be.
Even then, the height of the reach could be an issue. Even 28" might be an invitation to wayward elbows smashing into buildings or foregound fences and trees if you are reaching into a layout that is mostly at your high chest level.
How wide do you want it to be? The extension for my layout is a shelf type structure, in that one side is bolted to the wall and the other side is supported on two 2x4 legs. It’s almost 4 feet wide.
The section of my layout along the solid, structural wall is supported on shelf brackets - the kind that are supported by slotted tracks that screw into the vertical studs.
Brackets are available in lengths up to 16" and can support longer supports bolted on. I anticipate a maximum layout width of 24", dictated mainly by the width of the adjacent aisleway. The same tracks can support storage shelves above and below, and are ideal for a thin upper deck on a multi-level layout.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Don’t forget about height as well. If its an upper deck for instance you probably can’t lean in as far (or at all) thus reducing total length of reach. Also, my advice would be to keep the shelf as narrow as you can get away with while maintaing adeqate room for tracks and scenery. A narrow shelf gives the impression of a longer run than a wider shelf will.
Chuck,
That’s the exact information I was looking for. I’m interested in using brackets on slotted tracts like you use. I don’t have the desire to “invent” my own shelving system for this, otherwise I would just build traditional benchwork. I’m guessing I can also use the vertical brackets to secure the backdrop when I’m ready too. Right?
The 16" depth for the bracket is pretty reasonable. I doubt I would want it beyond 2’ as this would definitely strain my reach for anything useful beyond that depth. Do you know how you will “bolt on” the supports to go beyond the 16" default lenght?
Thanks again to everyone who has tried to help.
Ed
The standard rule of thumb is 30 inches but that fails to take into account so many factors. You really have to make a judgement about what you will have to reach for routinely, occasionally, and rarely. You also have to factor in the height of the layout, your own height, and what foreground scenery is going to be between you and the thing you are going to have to reach. If you have a hand thrown turnout, you very well should keep it within the recommended maximum reach. Same with track where you might have to rerail a piece of rolling stock. On the other hand, if the only thing you have beyond a comfortable reach is scenery that will rarely need a dusting, you can really stretch it. Believe it or not, I have one section that is 4 feet deep along a wall. The back 18 inches are nothing more than 3-D scenery with track. I’ve actually climbed on the benchwork to install this scenery and once it is in, it will just need a dusting once or twice a year and for that I have a long handle feather duster. If I need to get back there to fix something that has come loose, I have access hatches at critical points. I do have other areas where I have spur tracks nearly 3 feet from the aisle. This is not a comforable reach but if I need to, I have a step stool that makes it much easier to access the section near the wall. If you like deep scenes, don’t be afraid to bend the rules.
WickhamMan,
I extended the 16" brackets to 18" (and provided a horizontal lip to use to attach the decking immediately above) by bolting on lengths of steel stud material. The small studs, meant for non-load-bearing walls, are almost exactly as high as the rearmost portion of the ‘store-boughten’ brackets. I used three short 1/4" bolts, lock washers and nuts, in holes drilled through both the bracket and the stud, to hold things together.
The portion I’m using now has three tracks at bracket-top level, plus two heavier steel stud “C pretending to be L” girders parallel to the wall. The sceniced level will be built on joists above those girders, which will be located where I need them, completely independent of the brackets.
As for a backdrop, there’s no reason why it couldn’t be mounted on the vertical tracks, with velcro, glue or small screws into the bracket slots. Since my prototype had vertical scenery in the area along that shelf my mountains will run right up to the bottom of the next level of shelving. A whitish blue ‘sky-drop’ and a short valance to conceal lighting will be under that shelf. (Accumulated junk in boxes will be on top of it, as well as under the layout shelf.)
Prior to my most recent move I had a layout in a spare bedroom, all of it supported on, but not attached to, shelf brackets.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on all-metal benchwork)
WickhamMan, it looks like they make 20" shelf brackets so then you wouldn’t have to bother with extending them at all. If you only have 4" cantilevered over the end of the bracket, you should be fine.
Even if you can’t find the 20" and have to go with 16" I wouldn’t worry too much, you’ve still got 2/3 of the 24" on the bracket. A little plywood might go a long way with this type of design though, to reduce sagging between the brackets. (Then just put your foam on top.)
This also leaves someplace to run your wiring, out in front of the brackets.
Check this out: http://www.reganspace.com/Trains/bench%20work%20and%20backdrop.html
With regard to shelf bracket supports for a shelf layout, you might want to check out the article by Don Spiro in the October 2005 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman starting on page 72. He describes using the Dorfile shelf system which he bought at Home Depot to support his shelf layout. It also describes how he was able to build the layout wider than the maximum length of the available shelf brackets themselves. Looks like an easy system to use.
I would agree that in most situations 24" width should be the maximum. The new N scale layout I’m building is an around-the-wall linear layout which will be at 54" to 56" in height. Most of the width will be 18" to 24" with a yard area at 30" and two areas at 36". The areas with the 36" width will have only scenery in the back 6" to 12". I’m 6’4" and have a fairly long reach.
Bob
Yup. It’s more costly than the L-brackets, but you do have the option of freely adjusting the height and added shelves above and / or below.
Check out http://www.johnsterling.com/aboutfastmount.htm
I know they make brackets rated for shelves up to 26" deep, and 300 lbs per bracket.
Those are some serious shelf supports. I’m going to have to look into these. I’d love to have a support that reached 26" away from the wall. Thanks for the link! [:)]
Before I moved, my (1st attempt), I was living in a single wide mobile home and the layout was a full dogbone layout with 18" on regular shelf brackets, then the dogbones were somewhere around the 32" or so. I didnt have any problems with working it…just made sure I used a bracket everywhere I had a stud to put one. It can be done.
I made mine out of wood.
