I do not have the space for an around the room type layout that has realistic track radii. With that in mind, I was thinking of a “C” shaped point to point shelf layout. It couldn’t be a lot of track, say, 20 feet or so.
What could I do to operate this type of layout? Go one way, back up, go again Etc. Where is the fun in that?
I have a 4X8 now that I want to take down. Its best feature is continuous running. I can do several “laps” to simulate a long run, dropping off and picking up passengers or freight but I would like to start over with the shelf layout.
With most shelf layouts you are pretty much limited to a point to point set up. So in some form you will be bringing cars in and setting them out. Best way to me to approach this is that your layout is either a branch service of the mainline or a privately owned shortline with one or two engines, these are very interesting layouts to operate but theres alot more planning involved because you need to know what industries your servicing, what type of freight cars they would use, how those industries operate in regards to rail servicing, and how to cut and move cars so you can move old cars out and new ones in.
Most shelf layouts will utilize an interchange siding, this is where the cars designated for the industries on your branch are left and where your engines will pick them up, now like most RRs they will NOT be carefully set up so you can go 1 2 3 down the route dropping and picking up, they will come willy nilly and its your job to cut and sort the cars for the most efficient means of delivering them, alot of time you wont be able to and you will have to deliver them as best you can. It just like running a real RR, you can use a card system for keeping track of which cars went where, or just use a pad of paper to record whats supposed to go where and where what went. Your trains will be alot shorter but then that can depend on the number of industries served but you also have to plan your spurs and run arounds so you have enough room to handle car lengths without running foul of them when switching cars or using passing sidings.
I’m also building what amounts to a point to point layout, however mine is served by a float barge which will bring in cars and take them out, there is no other connection to any other railroad, its a self contained system. Bit bigger than yours but these can be alot of fun and hold your attention if you really want to find out how a real RR operates, these is the way to go.
While there is a certain type of fun in just running a model train in circles, there are areas of fun with model trains that go far beyond that. The fun in any layout depends on the intelligence behind the track plan. A shelf layout depending on length could constitute a variety of switching districts or industrial areas, and the need to pick up some cars, leave others where they are, and deliver new cars to a precise destination (say, a numbered door at a warehouse) can easily take a couple of hours especially if you take the time to do things in a prototypical manner – and have a switch engine with momentum effects. Even a local with a half dozen cars to set out to a half dozen destinations can take a surprisingly long time and can involve some very challenging brain twisters.
The intelligence (or devilishness) in the track plan comes in such things as run around tracks, length of switch leads, the presence or absence of switchbacks, siding capacities, and so on. It can also come with special rules about how a car that is already present can or cannot be moved to set out or pick up a car that is beyond it. Real crews face these issues all the time.
This kind of local switching is one area where a model train crew can take just as long as a prototype crew to do their work. You could even add to the challenge if one track was deemed to be a main line, and the local crew had to clear the mainline in time for scheduled superior trains (which would not have to actually appear).
Another possibility is a transfer train between railroads that would serve an interchange track. This would provide an opportunity to introduce “fresh” cars onto a shelf layout so it wouldn’t seem that you are seeing the same cars every time you operate.
On large club layouts it is the crew of the local switcher that “works” the hardest of all the train crews (the yard masters or dispatcher may work the hardest of all) while
This is kinda like comparing NASCAR to drag racing. Huge fans in both camps, but they don’t necessarily cross over very well.
You say the best feature of your first layout is the continuous running. Unless you have an extreme mindset change, your shelf layout will be short lived as it doesn’t do what you really want. If you like see see your train out and running, a shelf layout probably isn’t going to cut it for you.
My layout isn’t a “roundy round” type, but point to point … but it’s almost 190 feet between points, so I do get to stand back and watch my train run. Myself, personally - I would get bored with a short shelf layout after while. I enjoy shuffling cars around industries and such, but at some point, I like to get that train out and running.
That being said, there are a lot of folks that have no other options. It’s either a shelf layout or none at all due to space constraints. If that’s the case, you might just need to re-adjust your interests for the sake of having SOMEthing to run your trains on.
Well, of course it depends on what you could build.
LION likes passenger terminals (passengers are, after all, very tasty.
Since you are looking at a “C” shape, I would build the passenger terminal on the bottom leg of the “C”, I’d make it about 6 tracks if I had enough room for the tracks and at least three platforms. (Otherwise I would have to limit it to four tracks and two platforms.
I would put a bunch of double slip switches leading into the terminal. The north two tracks out of the terminal take the back of the “C” and run around to the top of the “C” where you have a few staging tracks, perhaps enough to put the locomotives in the lead for the return trip.
The south track coming from the terminal goes to the back of “C” where you have your car maintenance facilities, cleaning and restocking cars, building the next trains to go out etc.
LION would then build a model of the INTERLOCKING PLANT, ok, you do NOT have to build the big levers that I built, but wire it at least so that it looks like and works like a typical interlocking plant. Use RED switches for the signals and BLACK switches for the switch points. For trains moving left to right ALL of the signals are on the left of the row of switches, for trains moving right to left, all of the signals are on the right of the row. The black switches controlling the turn outs are in order from right to left as you look at your layout or at your model board. Each signal, and each set of switch points is numbered from left to right starting with lever 1.
SPEND TIME on designing your interlocking plant, as that is where most of your action will be. Then make timetables for the arrival and departure of your trains. Commuter trains will be of the push pull variety and need little switching. Regional trains will have to arrive and be disassembled with cars and locomotives going into the service tracks. Then the next train will have to be assembled, and brought to the p
First would be a urban industrial branch with several industries including one or two with several spots.
Second would be a regular branch with several industries to switch at the terminus of the branch.I would add a small yard at the junction with the “mail line” so I could have a place to switch my train in industry order plus a holding track for any industry’s overflow cars and to use as a fiddle yard to change out the cars instead of using the same handful of cars very operation session…If you model the steam era or the late 50/early 60s you could use a combine instead of a caboose.
I have my layout in my 2-ish car garage and I have thought about replacing it with a big L shaped shelf so I could reclaim some the garage but like you I wonder how to maintain the fun. I enjoy going out and doing some switching so I could see a point to point shelf working for me but then again I mostly enjoy setting up a train with a couple three engines and about 25 to 40 cars and just let it run while I work an area of the layout. So for now unless I have to go a shelf layout down the road I am going to keep my round the walls layout.
Another possibility - join a modular group and build several modules that fit (with or without some permanent pieces as links) as your home shelf layout.
Continuous (or long point-to-point) runs at the modular setups, and shelf switcher at home. Advantages of the modular route:
if you like big power, long trains, or full length passenger cars, the modular curve, turnout, and grade standards are almost always set up to handle them.
most modular standards will force you not to cram too much track on to your modules. Big turnouts, big radius curves, and typical 4" min distance from module edge will make your modules more realistic, and operate more reliably.
you can combine a module (or 2-3) in your space along with some fixed segments at home that don’t have to meet the modular standard. You only take the modules with you to the setups.
working cooperatively with others in the modular group will advance your modeling skills faster than remaining a lone wolf.
the modular setups will feature a totally different style of operations than you have room for at home. This lets you experience multiple types of operations for the same investment in a single layout.
There are a variety of HO modular standards - single track, double track, multiple track, closed loop layout
A point-to-point shelf layout is all about industrial switching. If you like switching and spotting freight cars, you can create something really interesting if you give some deliberate thought to the design and how it should work. Ideally any shelf an interchange track representing the connection to the rest of the world and you run it by pulling all the cars out of the interchange, delivering them to the appropriate industries, and bring the outbound cars from the industries back to the interchange.
If you don’t really care that much about switching and prefer to watch the train run, then a continuous run layout of some sort is better for you.
Try building a removable 2-3 track staging yard that you can plug into either end of the layout when in use. This will give you a place to have your trains originate from, and a place for them to go to.
If you absolutely must have continous running, and if it makes sense for your space, another option might be to run a narrow, single-track “shelf” along the other walls to connect the two ends of the layout together. I mean narrow, as in barely wider than the width of an NMRA clearance gauge. Preferably with a protective “fence” of some kind along the front edge. You’d almost certainly need to have removable bridge sections to accomodate doors and whatnot, but those parts would be “off layout” so they don’t have to be pretty and could work quite well if you put some thought into constructing them. You could even build the whole thing in sections so they could be removed and stored when not in use.
If your layout is a C-shape, it sounds like you have 3 of the 4 walls covered already, so it shouldn’t be too much trouble to connect the ends together. The only problem would be dealing with any obstructions you have between the ends.
As a sidebar: I always thought the terms “shelf layout” and “around the walls” were basically synonymous. OTOH, I suppose “around the walls” sort of implies a closed loop, but not necessarily. Also, “shelf layout” seems to imply a limitation on layout depth and lack of freestanding peninsulas. Based on how the discussion has gone so far, I’d say the real topic is “point-to-point” vs. “closed loop” rather than “shelf layout” vs. “around-the-walls/ freestanding.” … in the end, I guess it’s just a matter of semantics [:P]
My last layout, prior to my move to my present abode, was an L shaped shelf, one end of which was my, “End of the railroad,” module. The other leg allowed interchange and some local terminal switching at a Reader’s Digest edition of my main line interchange. “Interchange” went into a cassette, one of several available to represent the JNR and the rest of Japan.
Operations included the entire timetable for the Tomikawa Tani Tetsudo, all 28 daily scheduled trains. Half of the passenger schedules (five round trips) were covered by a four-wheel double-ended rail bus. Six were mixed (one coach and a couple of four wheel goods wagons) - three each way. The worker/school train (2 round trips daily) added a second passenger coach and left the goods wagons for other trains.
That left eight schedules where passengers weren’t carried. Two each way were Japan-size unit trains of TTT coal hoppers interchanged with the JNR for forwarding. One each way handled loose-car coal shipments. The final round trip was the only pure goods train, and handled fuel, explosives and other HAZMAT (along with mine timber and sacked rice.)
Which specific car moved where when was determined by car card/waybill and the employee timetable. Things could get hectic. OTOH, there were several slack times when that little railbus ran from one end of the line to the other, sat just long enough to work passengers, then ran back.
I, too, like to watch things run roundy-round. But I learned, on one much larger club layout, that, if you were running a switch list for the Port peddler, you never even noticed the through trains passing by on top of the embankment. You didn’t have time or attention to spare.
At one time I had a C shaped shelf layout. What I did was get a length of 1x4, put another on it like an L girder, and used it as a temp bridge across the room from one side to the other. Basically gave an option for continuous run, but was easy to take off and store when I didn’t need it.
Right now I’m stuck with a very short L shaped layout. I don’t miss the continuous running so much as the ability to put distance between towns. I’m building it in the junction to town branch line concept so operationally it follows prototype concepts, but the distance is very short between the junction and the town. Actually, if I had more space, it would be the same concept, just opened up some more.
I did not post this before,but that is a interesting plan that you had shown…I like it mainly for the,dock and river,scenes,would make for many switching,possibilities…