My layout is in an unheated and unairconditioned garage. Since I live in the South, humidity during the summer months can be quite oppressive. Does anyone have suggestions for a humidity level for best operating conditions in both winter and summer? thanks
Phil,
Check out the thread in,Layouts and Layout Building,page 2,‘‘Rail expansion: how much is there really’’??
Lot of answers for you…
Cheers,
Frank
A layout placed in an area of “extreme” humidity or moisture can have all sorts of issues if not controlled or built to withstand the frame/ base expansion. Rail expansion/ contraction due to temperature is basically negligible, the frame does all the movement.
If attempting to control the enviorment of the garage is too costly or unfeasible, the selected materials and design of the benchwork needs to be considered. The main reason for rail “buckling” and plywood/ panel distortion is the expansion/ contraction of the benchwork. Various methods and materials of the construction can help to minimize the problem. Open grid using risers and spline can help, decking a frame w/ extruded foam, and as one forum member uses, steel stud framework topped w/ foam. This type construction is almost impervious to humidity and temperature.
The conditions at which you lay the roadbed and track can also have an affect on future track condition. If the frame is “swelled” during high humidity and track is laid w/ minimal gaps and many soldered joints during this time, as the wood dries and shrinks, the gaps will close and track buckling can happen. The same can happen with facsia and backdrop materials if using thin plys or MDF and untempered masonite. Tempered masonite, sealing all sides or using vinyl or styrene will help under “extreme” circumstances.
Insulating and controlling the climate of the space w/ dehumidifier even a through wall A/C unit will also help regardless of consrtuction methods and make running trains much more enjoyable.
It’s not so much that there’s an ideal humidity. Rather, it’s a stable humidity that’s most important.
Otherwise, wood will undergo serious excursions in length, swelling, etc. You can paint it to seal it, but wood benchwork will be a problem otherwise unless the layout space is climate controlled. Best to use steel benchwork and extruded foam for the surface instead, as that will minimize the expansion issue, if the space can’t be climate controlled.
humidity to be on the low side. Stable
You would want the humidty to be on the low side. Having a stable but high humidity environment is an invitation for mold.
A ‘garage layout’ usually has all kinds of environment related issues. These vary from heat/humidity to bugs/varmints. I suspect insulating/finishing the garage will help. A/C & a dehumidifier are great solutions, but you really need to have them running all the time.
Living in Minnesota, I have a large basement and it is climate controlled(about 68 degrees & 55% humidity right now). We have had a very wet summer and this is the highest humidity I have recorded in the basement. Usually the summer is about 45% humidity - The built-in dehumidifier in the A/C has not really kept up, and I just purchased a large free standing dehumidifier from Menards to see if I can drive the humidity back down to the high 30’s/low 40’s. At least the basement does not feel ‘musty’ when I walk down there.
Jim
I have my dehumidifiers (basement and out in the train room insulated loft above the barn-shaped board and batten garage) set to cycle between 45 and 65%. Near the ocean, and with rainy winters in the PNW, humidity is bad during the cooler months, and it CAN get bad in the basement during the summer. Except during rainy days now and then, the loft this time of year is almost bone dry. Firewood left piled under a tree will be tinder dry by the middle of July, and that’s the time to stack it in the shed.
I have found problems developing when the humidity in the train room exceeds 65% for more than about a week. After that, I can find track alignment problems at joints that are not soldered. Also, you don’t want tinder-dry wood, especially when cutting and assembling it and then hoping it’ll stay the way you assembled the benchwork when you allow the humidity to climb over 60% - good luck with that. So, the range I have specified works very reliably: 45-65%.
Crandell
Jim,
Yeah, definitely less humidity than would grow mold[:O], although anyone who wanted to build a layout under conditions that “soupy” sounds like they’re a bit “fishy” anyway. Maybe Gomez Addams?[:)]
Crandell,
Good point. You gotta work with what you have. Circumstances sometimes dictate it’s going to be a range. A 20% range sounds about right for limiting most issues to where they wouldn’t be a bother. In your case, that’s probably higher than would be preferred. The key thing is limiting the swing to 20% or so, even if it’s 40% to 60% or another set of numbers.
Even then, with decent climate control, you will still get spikes like you’ve noted. Here in the Midwest, summertime humidity is a given. But just after a big T-storm front moves through, it can go to 100% and stay there for hours. Inside the house is better with the A/C on, but it’ll still show up. I have several Blackstone C-19s. They run fine for such a delicate little beast, but if I haven’t cleaned them as specified lately, they’ll suck that moisture up and start getting iffy on electrical contact in places. A little cleaning brings 'em right back to the usual sparkling performance, but you can’t help but notice they were fine before the damp weather came through.
For me the humidity is usually in the 50% but like right now and the last week or so it has been raining alot and very damp feeling which would cause it to go to about 60%.
But I have the central air on so that cuts it down pretty good and I also have a dehumidifier running to come on anytime the humidity goes over 50%.
I also don’t like it too dry down there or too dry in the house for that matter It’s usually bewteen 40- 50% in my house.