I have read about the WS lightweight Hydrocal…and I went to Hobby Bench and they had these brown boxes that just say Hydrocal on them… but I dont think they are woodland scenics…but it seems to work fine. I wanted to know what is the difference? What is the difference with Plaste of paris? a 10 pound box of this hydrocal was I think 10 bucks…so 1 dollar a pound. Is that about right? I am really looking to spend less. I have already commited about $2500 on wood for this train set, 2 loomotives, some cars, construction insulating foam, paints, paint brushes track, power supplies heheh…why am I telling you all this, you all know how it works… well my wad of cash is gone so im now ready to do things the cheapest way. I am needing to do some landscaping. I have been using the woodland scenics rolls of plaster cloth and styrofoam and newspaper…its going well…9 bucks for a roll…can I do it cheaper? can I get this stuff in bulk?
how about ballast? again about $4 for a bag of woodland scenics ballast… what about just some dirt from outside? a rock and gravel company maybe? bulk sand? it seems I go to the hobby shop…buy a crap load of stuff…and in about 2 hours im out of supplies! is this normal? hahha
Make a phone call or two to local medical suppliers in your area to see if they’ll sell you a case… a case has about 12 rolls of plaster cloth in it…
It took me less than 10 minutes to find one in my area and I bought a case for about $30. It’s the same stuff that is used to make casts for broken bones etc.and it works just fine. BUT… (there’s that but again), make sure it’s the slower setting type. The first time I bought it I received the kind that sets in 2 to 4 minutes and MAN… let me tell you… you’ll learn to work very fast with that stuff. The Woodland Scenics brand is wider, it’s 8 inches x 15 feet, if memory serves me right, and the medical type was 6 inches… but still it’s a whole lot cheaper.
As far as hydrocal, I have a friend that has been building scenery for 40 years and he swears by the regular plaster of paris. Another friend loves lightweight hydrocal. So, the jury is still out on the subject for me.
I stopped using much plaster cloth after I discovered foam scenery. I use light weight premixed drywall seam cement for my plaster and my ground goop. I tried some WS lite weight hydrocal, but it was no better than PofP and cost WAY more. I use PofP now only for rock castings.
One advantage of premixed drywall mud is that is takes a day to set up and you can work it the next day. This allows for much better detail carving. Another advantage is that is can be cleaned up in the sink. NEVER clean plaster tools in the sink, it will ruin the drain.
I would still use real ballast. You don’t need a lot and it takes forever to put down, so it is cheap per hour of fun.
Woodland Scenics materials are easy to buy, but very expenssive. They just re-package the same materials you can buy elseware in bulk. Hydrocal comes in several versions(Hydrocal/Ultracal/etc…). It is usually sold in 100# bags. Many good LHS’s will buy the bulk bags and re-package it themselves into smaller bags. Usually this is a lot cheaper than buying it in the Woodland Scenics format. Plaster of Paris is ‘softer’, and can be carved. It does not dry with the ‘hardness’ of Hydocal, one of the reasons Hydrocal is favored for ‘hard shell’ scenery. The downside of Hydrocal is that it does not carve or take stains/washes very well. I usually ‘paint’ the basic Hydrocal ‘hard shell’ with Plaster of Paris, then use my rock stains. You can buy the rolls of ‘plaster wrap’ much cheaper in bulk from a medical supply house as other have mentioned.
Ballast - Most of the Woodland Scenics ballast appears to be crushed walnut shells(or something close). They soak up moisture, float, and even grow mold in some enviroments. Real rock ballast is much better. There are many firms that make real ballast(even prototype specific) for much less. Some LHS’s carry these lines, others you have to mail order from. Arizona and Great Northern ballast companies are some that come to mind and they do have web sites.
I am not ‘bashing’ Woodland Scenics, but there are other sources for these scenic items. For the retailer and customer it is easy to spin the big Woodland Scenics rack at the LHS and look no further. I would not use dirt(too much organic stuff in it). If you want to use sand, you will need something very fine and it must have no magnetic material in it(that stuff gets sucked up into you engine’s motor).
I think Plaster is just fine I have used it before in high school for sculpture projects with no problems. Besides it has been used for years by model rail roaders, so my therey is if it aint broke dont fix it… Oh and plaster problems with bugs… Never had them in colorado. Mabye in more humid climates though.
wow, always a lot of info on this forum! thank you!! On ballast… I have bought the real and the woodland…I mixed them and liked the effect. what do they make the real out of? it seems to be just some very fine sand.
I buy somebody else’s Hydrocal in a big jar. It might be Scenic Express. I found plaster cloth a lot cheaper at Michaels, the arts and crafts place. I also use Gypsolite (LHS, same big jar) which has a nice gritty texture. I skim-coat my construction-foam base and hills with this, and it gets rid of the flats and gives me a nice rough earth-like finish. (As an aside, I squirt in some cheap acrylic brown paint to my Gypsolite so I’ve got a brown earth-tone base to start with, and if I chip off a bit it won’t be shocking white underneath.)
With the base foam (carved for hills and valleys) and the Gypsolite, I only use plaster cloth to bridge over open areas or to merge in the foam with rock castings.
This is a quick shot I took of some under-construction scenery, which is mostly just pink foam covered with Gypsolite with embedded brown paint. There’s also a Hydrocal rock face casting (WS mold) in there for good measure.
Same here, and my basement is a haven for all types of arthropods…a good thing since it keeps the distaff upstairs most often. [;)]
Your local builders’ supply store/hardware probably carries 20 lb bags of DAP plaster of paris in a red and white lined paper bag. It costs me about Cdn$19/bag, and I am on my third already doing hardshell. Beats the heck out of Walmart prices/unit weight/volume.
Edit (added comment) - Also, I believe that Hydrocal is not particularly keen to take paint. Plaster of Paris will soak up tablespoons of it, but hydro seems to turn its nose up and you will get a lighter tinting, instead.
Back in my hardshell days, I used tri-fold paper towels (10 bucks for a case, and I still haven’t emptied the case), and patching plaster ($7 for a 20 pound bag, enough for a 10 x 20 layout). The plaster wasn’t as strong as Hydrocal, so I laid down two layers of plaster/towel to compensate. I used the finer plaster of paris for rock castings.
Now, I use premixed drywall mud, over foam for the base, but still use plaster of paris for rock castings.
But, Jeffrey, would that not make the plaster essentially impossible to paint? I tint mine with mortar dye, but if I decided to alter it in some way, would the shellac or varathane, whatever, not preclude painting over it…or will acrylics “take”?
-Crandell
P.S.- …although I do like the idea of anything that will add strength to my hardshell. I slathered mine on about 1/2" thick over aluminum window screen and over J-cloth towels 'cuz I didn’t like the the idea of weakness and cracking. So far, it is strong.
I’ve painted over the shellac with acrylics and enamel paint. Both work well. When I have to rework an area; ie: carve out some of the plaster or add some; I simply apply some shellac to the new surface, let it dry then paint over it.
Yeah, Jeffrey, that makes sense. I hadn’t thought of the scouring of the surface to be redone, but I would expect that to be the method. Thanks for your reply.
