I guess the era of high detail correct models is over

[ATLANTIC_CENTRAL]

OK, I’m not the fussiest modeler, close enough is often good enough for me, particularly with rolling stock. I model the early 50’s and even I was willing to pay $40 or $50 for every freight car, the range of prototypes for a good roster in my era simply don’t exist in high detail RTR.

When it comes to locomotives, I am a little more fussy, but still not OCD.

So Scale Trains, under their Fox Valley brand has announced what is clearly a rework of the MTH Berkshire, a model I was not impressed with when MTH offered it.

So they are offering it lettered as C&O #2755, despite the glaring errors between the MTH model and the C&O K-4 Kanawha locomotives. The MTH model, and the Fox Valley rerun, are models of a NKP Berkshire, and will even pass for some of the Pere Marquette locomotives.

But the C&O locos, while basically the same design, have the following differences:

• a larger cab
• different sand dome/steam dome placement (very obvious difference)
• a larger tender
• a different pilot
• an additional shield in front of the air pumps

Now I have taken some heat over the years for defending Bachmann, but guess what? Bachmann got all theses details correct for all three railroads on their offering of the NKP/C&O/PM Berkshire/Kanawha. Imagine that.

And to top it off, Scale Trains/Fox Valley is also lettering this loco in ERIE. Not even close…

https://shop.bachmanntrains.com/images/HO_Scale/52405.jpg

https://shop.bachmanntrains.com/images/HO_Scale/52401.jpg

Sheldon

[gmpullman]

Sell the sizzle — not the steak:

9919 UP Early Challenger (CSA-2), #3824, Ornate 1800's Fantasy Paint,...

Marketing at its finest! At least they held the (MSRP) price below one thousand!

Cheers, Ed

[ATLANTIC_CENTRAL]

Agreed, but at least they tell you it’s not prototypical…

Look, I’m a freelance/protolance modeler, I have five of these, something in between a LIMA Berkshire and a DT&I 800 class. Obviously built from Berkshire/Kanawha models. This picture before it went to the paint shop. And I created three sub classes by mixing and matching C&O and NKP/PM features.

But I also “model” the C&O as a road that interchanges with the ATLANTIC CENTRAL - I’m not buying a NKP 2-8-4 lettered for C&O.

Sheldon

[ATLANTIC_CENTRAL]

Yes, this has been a growing trend, even from these high end companies who bragged about prototype accuracy when they started.

Another example - BLI USRA Mikados and Pacifics.They could not/would not invest in the simplest minor detail changes to make those models more road specific. They all have the same tenders, trailing trucks, boiler details, headlights, etc.

But again, Bachmann was able to at least get Delta and USRA trailing trucks on the correct road names with their USRA Pacifics and Mikes. As well as tender types and sizes (even if they are not exact matches, they are close), headlight positions, even spoked and disc trailing truck and lead truck wheelsets.

Sheldon

[Patrick_Flory]

I might believe that the era of high detail STEAM Locomotives might be winding down. The life like proto Series was probably the pinnacle. But as the steam era fades further and further into history, fewer and fewer modelers are going to want specialty engines unfortunately.

A rumor went around that I heard several places that just before the 2008–2009 market crash, Walthers had been in the beginning stages of developing a line of Harriman steam locomotives, which would’ve been really great for modelers of the SP, UP, IC, and central of Georgia. But of course, that never happened. And not long after that, H. Lee Riley at Bachmann passed away, which meant the end of the beautifully detailed relatively accurate Spectrum series of engines.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I appear to see a golden age of specialty detailing of diesel locomotives directed towards fine scale model of the diesel age. There’s no end of prototype-specific details you can put on diesels. Different rooftop fans, specific horn types, etc., etc. etc.

[ATLANTIC_CENTRAL]

Well, I have to admit, that as someone who models 1954, and who is not a “railfan” of current/modern railroading, I don’t follow the modern diesel offerings to any great extent.

And yes, maybe steam is fading in popularity? But surveys still put the transition era 2nd behind those who model present day/recent modern periods.

And for a long time, starting with Proto2000 at LifeLike and Spectrum at Bachmann ( I knew Lee Riley way back when he worked at Pro Custom Hobbies) both steam and diesel models moved quickly into more accurate and road specific details.

I suspect that is still true with diesels, and I also would say it it generally easier from a production or tooling standpoint to make diesels more road specific. So yes, as long as they sell in sufficient volume, diesels will likely be pretty accurate.

And I have diesels, lots of them, all prototypes from before 1955. EMD E, F, FP, SD and GP units, ALCO PA, FA, RS, etc. And most are very well detailed and mostly very road specific - as diesels of my era go.

I guess my biggest point is, if Bachmann, even without Lee, and after scaling back the Spectrum line, can make a Berkshire reasonably road specific, and make USRA Mikes and Pacifics with at least the correct trailing trucks, tender size/type, headlight locations, why is it such a challenge for Scale Trains, or Broadway, or MTH when they were still around?

They all charge more than Bachmann, and don’t tell me they are higher quality, there are lots of people who have had lots of mechanical/electrical problems with these more expensive brands.

Yes, Bachmann is a bigger company, and yes they PURPOSELY make products geared to a variety of price levels/detail levels in the hobby, but my Bachmann steam fleet (both Spectrum and Regular Line) has been more trouble free than my Broadway fleet…

You mentioned Proto2000 steam, very nice models, I have my share. But the limited variety leaves them out of a large segment of the market - even when they were new.

I guess I just expect a little more for Scale Trains or Broadway prices.

For $200 or $300 I can find a Bachmann C&O K-4, add some weight to it, and have a great running reasonably accurate model.

A close look at the ex MTH model will also a reveal some oversized “clunky” cast on detail on the diecast boiler - years ago my first impression was a scaled down piece of LIONEL.

Sheldon

[Patrick_Flory]

Bachmann put the wrong trailing truck on the 4501.

[ATLANTIC_CENTRAL]

Yes, not sure how they messed that up considering they have the right part.

At least it is an easy fix, that trailing truck is the same as several other Bachmann locos. I have spares if anyone needs them.

Sheldon

[snjroy]

Well, I would say that the correctness of recent offerings depends on the prototype and supplier. As a Canadian, I would say we’ve never been better served since Rapido came into the game. Bachmann rarely got CN locos correctly. And some roadnames have always been rather well served, like UP, SP and others.

And is steam going downhill model-wise? Probably, although we did see a “golden-age” of really nice and quiet running HO scale deliveries these last 20 years. The used market will be well-stocked for quite a few years. I can still find MDC kits produced more than 20 years ago. And who knows, with 3D printing getting better and better, we might see another golden age of model steam engines, with perhaps even more “personalized” offerings.

Simon

[Patrick_Flory]

I swapped it with a UP engine a decal for something else that wanted the Delta truck.

[ATLANTIC_CENTRAL]

My freelanced ATLANTIC CENTRAL favors Delta trailing trucks, so I have changed a lot of them from USRA to Delta.

Like three of these that got Delta trailing trucks and bigger tenders.

Sheldon

[DirtyD696]

@Pruitt

More and more manufacturers are getting into the fantasy paint schemes in a BIG way. I just saw where Walthers is offering a United Parcel Service diesel scheme. Now UPS does have some airplanes, but I’m pretty sure they don’t have any diesel locomotives of their own.

BLI has offered a whole lot of fantasy schemes based on the SP Daylight.

It’s a necessary evil. Unfortunately, some cars or locomotives were only ever owned by one or two railroads or there were only a handful of them ever made. In some cases both. So if a model company is gonna recoup their costs on tooling they either have to sell it for an obscene price that maybe only a member of the Saudi Royal Family could afford or make foobies and sell `em to people who either don’t know or don’t care whether or not a particular railroad ever actually had them. It is what it is.

What gets mind boggling is cases where you have something pretty much every railroad owned and there were hundreds if not thousands of yet no company makes it because they’re all in on that Big Boy of The Month time. lol I think by now you could probably have just one Big Boy from each company that made one in HO and end up with more of them than UP ever actually owned.

[Morpar]

Sheldon, I know this going off topic, but could you start a thread on improvements to the Bachmann steam locomotives? In particular the Berkshires? When I got back in the hobby 3 years ago I bought 2 of the Bachmann NKP Berks and 1 of the SP #4449 and while they are much better than the old Bachmann locos from the 1980’s they still don’t seem to pull or track well. I would love some simple, proven suggestions to help these locos stay on my roster in lieu of sitting in a box or a siding. And right now with the ScaleTrains locos on the way it is tempting to order a pair. Thanks!

[ATLANTIC_CENTRAL]

OK, the first secret to Bachmann locos, or any model loco, is to get over the idea that just because one company makes them does not mean all their products have the same strengths and weaknesses.

So let’s just take the Berkshire for now.

It has a simple straight forward drive that works fine. It has two weaknesses, we will take them one at a time. The first one is weight, it is too light. This obviously effects pulling power and tracking.

So add weight, it’s easy to do. Here are some photos.

I also added some weight inside the fire box, can’t seem to find a picture of that, at least two of these stick on weights back there as well.

And I always add weight to most steam tenders. A better tracking tender has better electrical pickup.

The second shortcoming of the Berk is the drawbar, it pulls the loco sideways on even moderate sizes curves. So cut the drawbar pin off the locomotive, and make a drawbar that connects to the trailing truck mounting location.

I converted my locos to freelanced Mikados, but you can do this with the stock trailing truck as well.

This will change the pulling dynamics of the loco and greatly improve how it tracks around curves.

Do me and our other readers a simple favor, don’t expect others to know what a loco is by it’s road name and number. Some people are simply not into that across the vast volume of information about real trains. I know SP 4449 is a GS4 4-8-4, but I bet more than a few people who don’t model the Southern Pacific have no idea.

On that note, I don’t have any first hand experience with the newer Bachmann GS-4, but I do have a few friends who have them, I have seen them run. So tell me what kind of issues you have.

If it is pulling power, I suspect it is just like the Berk, needs weight and likely has lots of room to ad some.

Are your locos DCC and sound?, just DCC? or DC powered. Let me know and I will explain some electrical secrets next.

Sheldon

[ATLANTIC_CENTRAL]

And here is one of my other versions of the Berk converted to a modern heavy Mikado.

Sheldon

[charlie_hebdo2]

Nice model Sheldon.

[Woke_Hoagland]

@charlie_hebdo2

502 UPS aircraft would not be described by most people as some so I don’t think your disagreement with Challenger is justified

It seemed pretty clear to me that he was using rhetorical understatement. YM, of course, MV.

[Engine_1988]

Anyway, back to the topic…
I don’t really care about the superdetailing–in fact, I’d be happy to see it go if it took high prices along. However, that doesn’t appear to be the case–yet.

[charlie_hebdo2]

@Engine_1988

don’t really care about the superdetailing

As some have suggested, super detailing with add on parts you can buy if you want makes more sense. Some aspects are part of the basic model, such as a Belpsire firebox.

[Mykhalin]

Steam has always been a disappointment. In my early teens, when I first discovered model railroading was a hobby and not just kids toys, I wanted to model the NYO&W. I even talked my mom into buying me a brass O&W 4-8-2. Then reality hit that there was no way to model realistically at the time. Bachmann FTAs (vs the FT A-B sets), Athearn F7 (vs the F3 As and Bs) Athearn “SW1500” (vs NW2s) and I don’t recall if Bachmann had their GE 44 tonners yet - and then there was the question of steam… Nickel Plate Products had imported some of the locomotives and rolling stock in brass. But a fleet of brass was WAY too pricey for a 13-year-old. I gave up in defeat. Jump forward a few decades. The Susquehanna c.1942 is my main focus at the moment. The Bachmann Russian Decapods are useful, even if by 1942 the ERIE had practically kitbashed each of them into unique models. But the rest of the steam fleet? Largely NPP brass - now decades older and on their third, fourth, or tenth owner. The RS1s and S2s are Atlas, but in 1942 they were only just starting to appear. Instead of surrender, I’m opting for pre-war DL-109s (same 539T primemover, so it fits spare parts wise). It would be nice to have better options, but I neither want to go totally freelance in the steam era, nor let the market steer me towards UP, Pennsy, etc.

Maybe, just maybe, as we get more advanced 3D printing options, in 50 years or so, we can all have our Star Fleet replicator print them, or just run a Holodeck program and operate a real locomotive on a real railroad, and give up layout building.