I am really reconsidering going with narrow gauge for my layout. We are starting benchwork this weekend, same size as the layout in the newest MRR issue. In my past attempts, and despite my ablities to fine tune brass engines, the little HOn3 steamers never ran as well as I wanted and I could not afford the higher quality imports that usualy do run better than the older ones. Now enter Blackstone models into the mix with thier K27 and soon to be released C19 locomotives. Granted you have to want to model Colorado narrow gauge. But with excellent running right out of the box in HOn3 is a real shot in the arm into a dying part of the HO hobby. I may just have to sell off most of my standard gauge stuff after staring at that layout for several hours, absorbing his excellent modeling. I would really like to know how he did the RGS loco on the wood front of the layout! I really hope MRR considers doing future articles on the narrow gauge, as this will only help spawn more models and a renewed interst in this scale/gauge combination. How about a 4x8 layout build article like the other layouts they have done in the past. With the availablty of reasonable cost locomtives from Blackstone and MMI, along with RTR rolling stock from Micro Trains and Blackstone, HOn3 is not totaly the bane of high doller brass and craftsman kits that are not the the “cup of tea” of many modelers. Keep up the small layout features MRR, most of use out here dont have a whole basement or attic to use, or the modeling budget to finance such a large layout. Granted I love seeing those layouts, but seeing what can be done in a 4x8 space gets me more in the mood to spend some $$ and get out of my chair to do some actual modeling. Much more so than seeing a basement size layout that I could never achive on my limited budget and space. Heck my whole train room is only 111" by 115", a 4x8 layout fills the one side of the room. I am putting the
I also enjoyed the feature, although the track plan of the layout is a little bit too cramped and spaghetti bowl-like for my taste. I agree that HOn3 is a very attractive option for MRRing in tighter spaces, but unfortunately, the cost involved is still forbidding, as it is much more expensive than HO standard gauge.
Actually, the overall trackplan for the Rio Grande Southern in the March issue seems rather reminiscent of both Atlas’ age’s old Granite Gorge & Northern plan and, I believe, John Olson’s Jerome & Southwestern.
I agree with the previous poster that the design includes rather more trackage than I’d usually prefer seeing on a layout as small as a 4x8, but there is at least some space left over for industrial sidings to create some sort of purpose for running the trains. The addition of a below grade staging yard is a nice additional touch to bolster interest and operations on this small layout.
CNJ831
I do agree on a bit to much trackage, but still a nicely done layout all told. I am thinking more along the lines of SP narrow gauge with a standard gauge connection since myself along with the other local modelers are into operation and interchange amoung thier layouts. Only one other modeler has HOn3, so I would have to reload from narrow gauge to standard gauge. I just have a big taste for little quaint locomotives and weed grown 3’ gauge track. I am looking at an old PFM SP#9 if I can come to an agreement on price with the owner, it will need a new can motor and fine scale drive shaft to overcome the downsides to a tender mounted motor. I also enjoy buiding the craftsman and laser wood kits, so that side of narrow gauge modeling appeals to me. With the new engines from MMI and Blackstone, the cost of atleast the engines are coming more inline with recent HO standard gauge engines with the same features. Blackstone’s rolling stock rivals the best brass and plastic on the market, but at a price to match. Labelle makes some nice wood kits that are not that hard to build once you jump in and get started, combine them with grandt line trucks and kaydee couplers and they do just fine. Keep in mind on the cost side, that unless you go gung ho on modeling the D&RGW, RGS or C&S, the upfront costs can be kept down. Smaller layouts only really need a couple of locomotives, the remaining costs being rolling stock and your choice in structures and scenery. There are many modelers that will handle the painting and tuning of older brass, myself included, so the thought of having to deal with a balky old brass engine isnt that scary. Actualy the older brass engines are quite simple to take appart when compared to recent offerings with all the electronics in them. Usualy just 3 small screws and you can remove the drive chassis from the superstructure, and 4 screws to remove the top from the tender chassis. Roundbell.com and L
I have a HOn3 WMC D&RGW T-12, which I bought back in 1975 at a price of $ 100. It is a nice model, though it has a open frame motor and needs a lot of work to run properly, as it hardly pulls its own weight running forward. And that´s exactly the point with “old” brass locos. There are plenty around, at reasonable prices, but they do need a lot of tinkering and tweaking which a lot of folks just don´t want to do. Certainly, Blackstone locos fill the gap with smooth running and well detailed locos, but at prices of around $ 500 landed cost for the DC only, no sound version here in Germany they are way beyond my reach.
I am a narrow gauge buff for at least 35 years, but this is still a rather exotic and costly niche - unless you go for modeling Japanese prototype in N scale. Standard trains in Japan run on 3 1/2 ft. tracks - so that´s by definition narrow gauge.
Hiya Ulrich, you get the double whammy on prices since you live overseas. Over here the street price for the Blackstone K’s are around the $340 price range for one with sound/dcc, the upcoming release of the C19 2-8-0’s look to be in the same price range on the street. Now MSRP is much higher but not seen in the actual market, atleast here in the USA. If you lived closer I could fix your T12’s ailments with extra weight a can motor. Those are one of the better running older HOn3 engines in thier time. Most now suffer from age related motor issues and the need to have the power pickups improved. I have found that if you solder a wire to each tender truck, and connect each feeder wire to the tenders chassis, thus bypassing the power pickup thru the truck mounting bolster, really helps older brass engines. The bolster to truck connection gets dirty and the power pickup gets spotty thru this connection. A decent soldering iron, flux and some light gauge stranded wire is all thats needed to hardwire the trucks to the tender frame. Some modelers add wipers to the insulated tender wheels to give it all wheel pickup, same can be done with the locomotive drive wheels. Cheers Mike
Umm - probably a bit late to ask this, and I may be misunderstanding what you are saying, but if your room is less than 10 x 10 foot, have you considered doing an around-the-walls type of footprint instead of a 4x8 rectangular table ?
Smile,
Stein
We have discussed doing that, but with 2 doors and my work bench in the same room, we dont think it will work all that well. We are just pricing the wood and cabinets that we would put below the layout for storage at this point. My better half has the flu so any actual building is on hold this weekend. Right now I cant come up with any motive power I am happy with. Found one engine I like, but the seller is stuck on a price that the piece doesnt warrent. So I am still searching, trying to stay away from D&RGW and K class engines as I prefer the smaller 2-8-0’s and 2-6-0’s and ten wheelers of the SPng. Just hard to find them in my price range. I did put a post up over on the brasscollectors yahoo group as well as a for sale ad for one of my engines I am selling. Mike
If you are not into modeling the D&RGW, the air gets pretty thin when it comes to availability in the used brass market.
Umm - are the measures you gave for the room (111" x 115") really correct?
To me it looks like even at best, you lose wall storage above and below layout on three walls, get a 19" squeeze-by past one end of the layout, and hardly will have room to get down on the floor next to your workbench to crawl under the layout to get up into a narrow strip along the back side of the layout - quick sketch
:
Of course, I have no clue where your doors actually are, how big your workbench is, and how practical or impractical it would be to have a layout run on a shelf above your workbench.
But putting a 4 x 8 into a room that is the size you describe doesn’t sound immediately tempting. I think I would have been way more tempted to do a layout on a narrow-ish shelf in that room - either a point-to-point design, or all around the walls with lift-outs, or narrow shelf with fold up/fold down blobs with turnback loops at the ends, or with fold-down wyes for turning or something.
Still - good luck with your layout!
Smile,
Stein
Stein´s right - a 4 by 8 pretty much fills your room and it may be even a nightmare to put up a plausible scenery.
Just as some food for thought, why not something like this:
This is a plan I had developed for my own planned layout, but had to give up for cost reasons. It´ll be easily adapted to fit into your room!
Thats not a bad looking point to point layout Ulrich. The doors for my room are in the same corner of the room roughly. The door into the room is at the left front corner. The closet door is on the left wall, just left of the centerline of the room itself. Yes a 4x8 will fill one whole side, with 3 sides boxed in with walls. If we go with this plan the table will be on casters so I can pull it out, crawl under so I can work on the far side of the layout. That point to point would work if it was shortened a bit on one side to allow for the entry door, unless I make that door a half door and a duck under. If the layout was done shelf style, I could put my desk/work bench under the shelf. The desk is not quite 4 foot long. If we take Ulriches plan and put the entry door at one end of the “U” shaped layout, the rest would fit for the most part. The room when you enter from the hall is 111.75 inches deep looking into the room. The width is 115 inches. A shelf layout has been discussed and is still on the table. But my ablities to visualize and draw a realistic track plan suck to say the least. Its a toss up on prototypes, first choice is SP narrow gauge using a PFM #9 and Westside models #18 4-6-0’s for motive power. One end of the layout would be the station/end of the line at Laws, NV with its turntable, water and oil tank. Other option is to loosely model a portion of the C&S using PFM 2-6-0 and 2-8-0 engines for motive power. However I am clueless on what portion to model, obviously the scenery aspect of a C&S layout is much more complicated than the SPng. While it is much easier to find D&RGW/RGS motive power, I would have to go with the smaller C class engines to really get the look I like and those tend to be more expensive than the K class Mikados. Mike
I also wouldnt need that notch in the corner of his plan, I can go the full depth into both corners.
I could be tempted to go with RGS for the prototype if I could come up with the #20 ten wheeler and a couple other of the smaller engines. Whichever prototype, the one must have is smaller engines. Mike
I have bought a NCNG (nevada co. narrow gauge) 2-8-0, stumbled onto it on our favorite auction website, pro painted and DCC installed for a bargain price. This was my first HOn3 engine I had many years ago, not this particular example, but the same model /brand. Those little Westside Models do really run well. Now I need help to take the above layout idea, and morph it into the NCNG in the late 30’s If anybody is up to the task and has the software, I would love and really appreciate the help. One length of the U shaped layout will be the full 115" of the room, then 112(rounded off) of the right wall, then 78" down the other wall. This will butt the layout up to the entry door. The leg that goes down the 115" wall could have a leg that comes back into the middle of the “U” that is 43". This would butt it up against the closet door. This would be the max room I have. I would want to use shelf brackets to hold the whole thing up on the wall, then I can put storage and my desk where I do modeling work under. Thanks Mike and Michele T
Mike,
as I have one of those sleepless nights again (it is past 3 am here in Germany), I will pick up the ball, but allow a little time for it.
I will use my plan as a basis and adapt it to your room.
Thanks Ulrich. I understand those sleepless nights. Have had a few lately myself. No huge rush to get it drawn up. Just post it up when you get it done. I am going to work on locating my wall brackets from my past shelf layouts and round up what wood and materials I have. Thanks again!!! Mike and Michele T
Dan Sylvester’s HOn3 RGS layout is indeed very well done. Note, however, that he custom-built the turnouts with curves through the frog to get everything to fit. You really can’t buy these turnouts, either as off-the-shelf components or from a commercial jig. They must be handlaid-to-fit if you want to achieve something like this within the arbitrary constraint of the 4X8 sheet.
More of Dan’s layout design concepts will be covered in the upcoming issue of the Layout Design Journal (that will be LDJ-41), published by the Layout Design SIG.
Byron
Mike,
here is the first shot at the track plan (still without the frills that make it look nice):
I used Walthers/Shinohara code 70 track and # 4 switches to accommodate the idea into your room. I know that # 4 switches are a little sharp, but I think you should be doing fine with them, as you apparently won´t be running a K series loco on this pike.
Minimum radius is 22".
Bump!