Idea

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

With this recent incident with the police on a Metra Platform, it really pissed me off. Here in St. Louis, the only place were you CANT photograph trains is near Oil Refineries, and private property. However, here is my my proposition. I propose a “Railfan Lisence” This lisence (ecxuse my spelling) will be able to clarify with one look at a card that the person means no harm to the railroad or the nation. For a simple fee of like $5.00, a Railfan ID card could make incedents like the one in Chicago a thing of the past. On the card, a Photo of yourself, Your name, Address, Date of Birth, Height, and everything else that would be on a drivers lisence, and you would be registered in an international database. I hope that everyone here on this forum would like to see things become easier again. How many of you would register for a railfan lisence. BTW, the lisence would entitle you to photograph trains from Public Property ONLY, and not be harrased by law enforcement…

BTW, I have taken photos of trains infront of St. Louis City Police (a Number of times) (The strictest in the area) and they didn’t care, they just told me to stay off the tracks and not to tresspass.

Chicago, you should be ASHAMED of yourself, detaining an inicent railfan to be registered as a "Potential Terrorist.

2

I believe New Jersey Transit offers a license like that, and I don’t think it costs any money.

3

seeing as how I was trying to help everyone in our hobby, it seems like that everybody does not care about police harrasing our comrades. I was giving a solution to our problems, but it seems that no one gives a hoot. Reminde me not to give anymore solutions.

4

wouldn’t work I hate to say it i love the idea, but no… If you call a railroad to ask if you can wonder around their property, more than likly they will say yes, but the RR police can still kick you off. so basicly a Police officer could say your disturbing the peace (i dunno, trains are loud, so maybe something else…) because SOMEONE OWNS THE LAND no matter if its public or not, its their decision. Like pets or skateboarding on public school property… BANNED!

5

Ill agree with you all the way on that.

6

Guys…
Who will issue and enforce this “license”?

The Office of Homeland Security?
Like I want to give those neo-*** anymore information about myself?

Who will pay for the printing and processing fees?
Believe it of not, the processing for the information on a background check is not free.

Who picks up the postage for mailing out the application, pays for the application to be printed, processed and such…

Who gets to decide what the qualifiactions for being issued a license are…
anybody with a warrant, even for simple traffic tickets get the boot?

How do you prove your a rail fan?

Or can anybody get one…which will render having one in the first place pretty much useless.
Just the administration of the “licenses” who be rather costly.

Your options if “bothered” by a cop while on public property…

First, make darn sure what you consider public property is, in fact, public property.

Then, explain, in calm tones and demenor, who you are and what your doing.
Dont not quote “the law” to a cop, unless your a lawyer…
Explain you dont think it is illegal.
Then if the cops insist on you moving on, pack up and get.
You can always find another place to take photos, but its real hard to do so from a jail cell.

If you want to persue it any farther, get the cops name and badge number, then contact their direct supervisor.

Explain the problem, ask for their help.

Do not remind them your taxes pay their salary, they already feel underpaid, (and most are) and probaly will ask for a raise, just before hanging up on you…

If that dosnt get you any joy, contact that police depts internal affairs division, register a complaint, and complain to the local DA…

Note if you do the last two, be prepared to have one really POed cop keeping a eye out for you, but it is a option.

Your bes

7

I think these are some good questions in a good post overall, any answers[?]

8

Could this become something attached to a drivers license, kinda like organ donation? When you renew your license at the BMV, they could ask if you want this notation on your license, if you say yes, they give you a form to fill out and sign, then they put a notation on your drivers license. Here in the great state of Indiana you already need like 5 forms of id to get a drivers license, so filling out a little form would be of no consequence. bnsfkline, I think it is a good idea, and with a few refinements could be a thing to work with. Personally I don’t photograph any trains, but I would be willing to get the “license” so that if I wanted too, I would be in compliance.

9

I am with Ed. More taxes to get this going and enforce it. Our police force is already overburdened having to check on a 5 year old that won’t clean his room or a drunk passed out on the sidewalk (this requires one firetruck, one police car and one ambulance!) Enough. Mind your p’s and q’s and quit acting suspicious. It is almost as if some people are daring them to ask you what you are doing. We all want freedom in this country, but when someone questions “you” and exactly what you are doing, we get really indignant! How dare they!

You want both freedom and security. One will have to give to have the other. Pick your poison!

I don’t want another license or another credit card! And I don’t want the expense that will go with both of them!

10

How many times have I seen signs that said “City Property - No Trespassing?” Private public property?

We hashed over a very similar suggestion a while back, with about the same results. “Back in the day” it would probably would have been easy. There would have been little or no suspicion of ne’er-do-wells trying to get a permit or license, so it wouldn’t have taken a complete background check (including your complete employment history, three references, and an extended questionaire regarding your interest in railroads) to get one.

And, even if you disregard privacy issues, the bureaucracy involved in the process would be a killer.

A “get out of jail” card would be really nice, but don’t wait for yours in the mail. If you get one, be very afraid. Keep your nose clean, call the officer “sir” or “ma’am”, and you should be OK.

11

I’d get a license. even though I actually stand on Union Pacific Property. If I’m out on a weekday before 6pm then there are UP employees hangin around they could care less that i am standing there, although it helps that i am a kid, they probably think I’m just some kid who likes trains, so it helps.

12

maybe its different in the States, but here in Canada, “crown land” is open to the public’s use, as long as they cohere to other laws. If your on public land, and you’re taking pictures of trains which are on nearby railroad property, then the police can have nothing against you, as I believe that bnsfkline is pointing out. With a “license” of some sort, perhaps administered by the AAR, it would be all the easier to be a railfan.

13

Let’s consider what “rights and privileges” such a card would convey.

  1. Trespassing on RR property? Nada
  2. Watching trains from (truly) public places? Already legal.
  3. Taking pictures of trains from the same public places? Already legal. (NJT duly noted, however)
  4. Recognition by law enforcement? Maybe, but you’re still getting hassled while they detain you and verify your railfanning license. Hopefully it’s good in this state, too.

So you’ve spent the money and time to obtain a license that gives you exactly the same rights and privileges as the guy standing next to you without one. Aside from bragging rights, what have you accomplished?

14

Well said…I couldn’t have said it better myself. I would not apply for a license for such a thing. Just more bureuracracy. Next, they’ll want licenses for plane fans…There used to be a small airport near where I live, where private aircrraft would fly in and out…I eventually took flying lessons there when I got older. On a nice Sunday, my parents and I would go up, and watch from the parking lot, the planes taking off and landing. and going around the pattern…these were 4 seaters, not your Commercial Aircraft. If someone compelled me to get a license to avoid scrutiny just for enjoying watching planes, I would think the same of it as getting a license to watch trains. A waste of my time. I also like to sit by the river during the Summer and watch and film the pleasure boats running up and down. Should I need a license for that? Perhaps someone thinks I am filming them because I want to use a boat for no good…load it with explosives…etc…But if I have a license, a cop can check it and put me in his data base…No thanks…If licenses would come out for Railfans, I’d keep on railfanning the way I do now…licenseless. Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown

15

On what authority do you contend that railroad police can kick someone off of public property?

Gabe

16

Hell I would have anything to have the damn cops just leave me alone. Why don’t they spend their time going after drug dealers and cracking down speeders and just leave us damn railfans alone. And no I did not say “ALL” cops eather!!! I mean if you see a bunch of Railfans photographing a train what are you gona do? Take them all to jail just for Railfanning? My god get real.

17

How would obtaining a licence prevent terrorists from taking pictures? A terrorist would probably not mind paying $5.00 to take out countless innocent people.

18

Thats not really what i ment…
What i mean is that if you have ever went railfaning at a yard of somesort, you know you have to get premission from the yard office. But, even if you have the paper from the yardoffice, the RR police can still kick you out. Now, a real police officer could ask/tell you to get off even public property if they wanted to. They may think its a law not to take photos of trains, so your better to listen to them and go some where else rather than be taken to the HQ to be booked,

19

True story…a couple of years ago, I was out of state railfanning when I pass by a powerplant where they are feeding loaded coal hoppers into a rotary dumper…so I do a U turn and stop b the side of the road to watch. The hoppers stop, but I film the operation., waiting for the next car to be fed into the dumper. All of a sudden, a private security vehicle pulls up and a Barney Fife gets out and asks me what I’m doing. I reply that I’m filming the rotary dumper. He says, well you are on Private Plant property and you can’t take pictures of the plant. First of all, I was on the right of way of the road, and the railroad mainline was between me and the plant. I responded as such, and that I do not see any signs saying no photography. We talk for a few minutes and he sees the railfan magazines on my dashboard. He then relents and says that I am welcome to watch, but the guys are out to lunch, I can wait for them or come back after lunch. Why was I fed a line of hogwash? When was a right of way of a public road Private Property in this instance? I guess my ‘Railfan identity card’ if it had existed would have set Deputy Fife straight? I think not…Know the laws…be courteous however in your interaction.with the PD… If you get hauled down to HQ, the have no grounds to hold you if you are courteous to the Officer and are within the Law. A pocket copy of the US Constitution in your shirt pocket might be handy to carry along nowadays, it seems. Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown

20

That’s why I like to Railfan alone anymore! “Away from the (Public)”. SNITCHES.