I’m trying to narrow down the type of air horn typically found on an EMD F-unit; a NYC F2A - to be precise. From the hour I’ve spent dredging the internet for answers I believe the closest might be the Leslie A-200 - at least according to this webpage:
All of the model photos I’ve found so far of single air horns, however, show a horn with two supporting brackets rather than one (like the photo above); the 2nd located closer to the bell section, as in the photo below:
Having played trombone for years this seems rather inane to me because a brace that close to the bell would tend to deaden the sound and not allow the bell section to vibrate properly. [:S]
So, my question: Were there actually prototype single air horns manufactured with two brackets? Or, is this just a manufacturer’s way of keeping the horn from breaking off the model?
Good Grief Tom, only two EMD F2 A units in the whole NYC roster, talk about rarities!!
To further confuse the Bear, I see that the NYC referred to 1604 and 1605 as DFA-1B
Having perused the available photos here, going to the extent of enlarging them I’d suggest the model manufacturers have got it right. Just don’t ask me to actually identify the horn type, except to say “it’s a noisy one!!”.[;)]
Aah, but there is some sensibility to this madness. The NYC had four FT A-B sets and they were stuck with having only a two-or-four unit configuration. By purchasing the F-2 they could now run a single F2, an A-B pair of FTs or an ABA set, FT + F2 or to a pair of FT A-B for a four-unit set.
From the NYC photos I’ve looked at over the years, and you can see it above, the bracket disappeared between the DFA-2a (6-1947) and the DFA-2c (5-1949).
Bracket on the 1615 but no bracket on the 1688. I would take a stab and say that the FT, F2 and F3s had bronze, thus heavier, horns and beginning with the F7s, on the NYC anyway, the aluminum housing models began showing up without the need for the extra bracket. Air horns are commonly bolted to the locomotive with a flange and four 1/2"-12 hex head cap screws.
Leslie, Nathan, Westinghouse were all working on improvements, of course. Power chamber modifications being one of them. You can see several different back cover plates, some with
Would you agree then that the bracketed version is the A-200? It sure looks like the one that came with my Highliners shell. Unfortunately, I only have one and need two so I was looking for a brass replacement; hence the search to determine which type of air horn it was.
A rarity, indeed, Bear! The NYC purchased and tested only two EMC/EMD F2s before moving onto the F3s. As Ed correctly states, they sometimes used them with paired FTs (as in the photo below) to create an A-B-A set and were equivalent in HP:
And here’s a photo of both NYC F2s MUed together as an A-A set:
(It looks look the air horn bracket is definitely visible on both the FTs and single F2 in the above photos.)
My desire is to paint & detail a NYC F2 with the earlier and short-lived “cat whisker” scheme - like the one found on this NYC FT:
This leads me to another question. From Ed’s terrific first photo (reposted below), the two F3s - #1613 & #1615 - clearly were outfitted with the dual-slotted roof panel right behind the cab:
The four NYC FTAs came with dual-circular fan grills in the same location. However, I haven’t found any overhead photos of F2s.
The Highliners kit comes with both a unslotted and dual-slotted roof panel. Would it be correct to assume that the NYC F2s probably were outfitted with the dual-slotted panels?
Maybe you could find an old Bowser/Stewart FT shell, Tom. I had a whole box of that stuff but gave it to a fellow modeler. The original Stewart FT came with lots of extra parts to customize the units to specific roads.
Yes, in one of its many variations. I’ll have to check but I believe the horns supplied with my numerous Bowser F units were the bracketed A-200s. I have a bunch of spares since they included them with the B units, too.
Funny you should mention the Stewart FT, Ed. I’m concurrently painting an undecorated Stewart FTA-B set for the NYC that I hope to also detail with the same “cat whisker” striping as the F2. The twin-hatch/twin-grille vent is actually molded right into the shell rather than a separate roof panel:
So, it would take some cutting & splicing to transfer that portion of the roof section of the Stewart FTA shell onto the Highliners shell; with only a hope that the roof contours matched one another. And it might even be simplier to scratch-build it from 0.01" thick styrene sheeting.
I’m guessing that there’s probably no detail parts for the twin-hatch/twin-grille vents like those above? Was this type also found on other railroad F-units? Or, was it only unique to the NYC? Since the Highliners kit didn’t come with that particular roof section as an option, I’m guessing it was the latter.
And I guess there’s no surprise there are no VERY few readily available models of the EMD F2 on the market - i.e. other than brass. There were only 77 F2As produced by EMD, total; 2nd only to the FL9 with 60.
FYI: I posted a query on the NYC-Railroad Groups forum and got a reply from Terry Link. He said that the “as delivered” NYC F2s came with the dual-slot dynamic brake grid - like the ones found on the F3s. Those roof panels come with the Highliners kits so I won’t need to scratchbuild or kitbash one - Woohoo!
I’m pleased to see that your queries have been answered Tom, but you realise that I’ll (we’ll) be expecting to see photos of your labours in WPF.[swg]
Cheers, the Bear.[:)]
That was a given, Bear. [:D] The real challenge will be coming up with a method for mimicking the cat whisker striping.
There are no complete decals for that particar scheme that I’m aware of. Microscale does make 1/32" wide striping that’s close. I had considering trimming & painting the stripes. However, I can only find trimming tape widths down to 1mm, which is too wide. I need 0.5mm or slightly wider (0.022"). Maybe I could try trimming Kapton tape to that size? Obviously, consistency will be the key.
The other issue is that I haven’t found a red NYC oval that is large enough. The one on the Microscale 87-49 decal set is scale 18" and I need one 28", which is the width of the door on the nose.
Oh, well. It keeps the project interesting and will make for a unique locomotive(s), when completed.
Here’s a tight-shot of the whisker nose, Tom. Looks like the herald is just under the door width by, maybe 1-1/2 or 2" on either side? Maybe you could find a 24" decal?
The F2 print is part of a drawing in Jeff Wilson’s book and it may be based on the 74 A and 30 B units built for the CB&Q. I sometimes get into some “in-depth” discussions about locomotive features during their years of production and it seems some fellows believe the production lines changed the way auto manufacturers changed over on their assembly lines.
Locomotives were a whole other animal and many changes were introduced gradually and in some cases the railroads placing the orders requested specific equipment or arrangements to meet their individual needs.
I’m glad you found someone who is familiar with the roof arrangement. There aren’t many folks left that remember the first-gen Diesels!
I wonder if there is an O scale decal set that would have your herald? Some of the early F3s had cast ovals mounted on the door. Wouldn’t that be nice to replicate!
That’s a GREAT suggestion, Ed. I’ll look into that.
If you note your photo, the numbers are painted on a raised plate rather than flat to the surface. Maybe it’s not worth the effort but it might be fun to try to model, nonetheless.
There’s a couple of tidbits about the striping and numbers. However, I’ll wait until one of them is confirmed by Terry before passing it along.
I believe they had the “cat-eye” glass inserts like some of the older railroad crossing signs used. Those had a sprung, bayonet-type socket that held them in place and were about 5/8" deep, thus the stand-off for the number plate.
Seems like many of the roads that had diesels with the small number boards made additional front mounted plates. It must have been tough for tower operators to spot an engine number on those tiny side number boards.
Here’s an E7 with the front number plate on standoffs:
Speaking of decals— the other day I decided to finally re-number one of the Empire State Express Hudsons since I had one from MTH (my one-and-only MTH engine) and a second one from Precision Scale Brass. Both engines I had were numbered 5429.
Decals for the ESE locomotives are impossible to find. I was browsing some of my stock and found a Microscale set intended for the NYC Flexi-Van cars. The numbers in this set were black and just the size and style I needed for the Empire State Express cab.
You could trim masking tape to the needed width and lengths for the stripes, and render them in paint.
This can be done either by pre-painting the area where the stripes will be, using the colour of the stripes, then masking-off the area of the stripes, and painting the colour of the locomotive, or by masking and adding the stripes over the base colour.
To maintain proper spacing and positioning of the masking, there are some tips to be found HERE
EDIT: I forgot to mention that the red nose heralds, in the set which I mentioned earlier in your other thread, are 21" wide - still narrower than you need, but I have quite a few of them if they’d be of use to you.
You may also be able to cut the nose stripes from the later lightning-stripe decals.
In addition, these sets have white numerals sized to fit on that front door, and the spelled-out NEW YORK CENTRAL, also in white, for the locos’ sides.
Yea, that’s what I’ve been learning, Ed. The earlier posted photo of the two bookend F2As shows the opposite F2 (#1605) with both the cat whisker scheme on the nose and the “full” (vs 3/4) lightening stripe along the side:
Note that the end of the cat whisker is just visible at the far end on the right side.
I’m also waiting confirmation as to the color of the cat whiskers. I always thought they were white but Terry Link stated that it was silver, according to his NYC reference. He’s looking for the original drawings, which should tell him the actual Duport paint color #.
