Before CN and IC merged to create the CNIC Railway Corporation, was IC a class one?
In my experience most class ones post 1970 with states in the names were confined to being regionals or class 2’s. (not all however)
Also, railroads with Central in the name were also confined to the same fate.
How many route miles did IC have? Any other info?
I think IC was a class one right up to the end. Try looking on this site for that info.
And nice sig picture.
Illinois Central was a class 1 when that term started being used. They were the first railroad to be built with land grants, before the Civil War. During 1972 they merged with the Gulf, Mobile and Ohio and had about 9500 route miles. They started the regional railroad movement by selling a lot of their lines and then changed their name back to Illinois Central in 1988.
Yeah, they spun off a lot of their lines, got rid of much of their doubletrack mains, sold the rail for scrap, repainted units from that ICG clown scheme to the traditonal IC black with the new “Death Star” logo, they really got themselves turned around in the late 80’s, even purchased new power in the form of SD70’s in the 90’s, and CN never let them have a chance to prove anything past that and ate them up in 1999, now you have CN units with “I.C.” on them…still makes me sore.
I am with you on missing the IC, but I am not sure about your contentions that CN never let them have a chance to prove anything. You should take a look at the corporate structure of CN before sticking to that assertion.
And, “clown scheme” sounds awful pejorative. That is my favorite scheme of all time; it goes so well with Illinois’ landscape. How come no one ever criticizes Western Maryland’s scheme? It is virtually the same with red instead of orange.
Gabe
I agree with Gabe on the orange and white. In the 1960’s when that designed was developed, the IC was going through a significant change in management philosophy in a concerted effort to move against the general downward trend that all the railroads faced. The design scheme, which was well regarded at the time, was just one part of the “new”. There were marketing inovations, significant changes made to improve the efficiency of operations, the merger with the GM&O, the development of intermodal services and many other steps taken to keep the railroad in fairly good shape. It wound up being the second to last small Class 1 before the CN picked it up. I haven’t looked into it, but I think the IC shareholders got good compensation from the CN.
Jay
Ok, first off, Cn did not “pick up” IC. They ,merged, hence CN not being CN anymore, and its real egal name is CNIC.
Let’s not forget that the original IC (before the GM&O merger) was known as the “Main Line of mid-America”. This was the railroad that gave us the City of New Orleans and one of the finest all-Pullman trains, The Panama Limited. They also ran TOFC trains from New Orleans to Chicago in 18 hours. That’s a mighty fine ride in anbody’s book.
The legend of Casey Jones. Unit grain trains. Meat trains. Classy passenger color scheme.
And now . . . how many times has the City of New Orleans fallen off the track or causeway in the past few years??
Sorry. You may have issues with the CN, but I don’t think the IC had any kind of extraordinary accident record prior to the CN’s merger or acquisition of the IC.
Jay
IC was pretty much on the ropes during the 70’s and early 80’s. Too many branch lines with not much traffic. Other than the north - south mainline, it was a pretty quiet railroad. The line to Iowa ran a few trains and the St. Louis line had a few, but other than that it was a north - south railroad in an east - west economy.
In the mid 80’s they sold everything but the mainline and a few branches. One could say they sold a couple of lines they shouldnt have…the Meridian - Shreveport line is now a busy mainline for east west traffic for KSC, but their mentality at the time was to get rid of pretty much everything. From 9500 route miles down to about 3000.
The CEO at the time was a man named Moyers and according to a story I read he had a brilliant idea while taking a shower…rip up the second mainline and sell the rail, using the ca***o purchase and install CTC. They also began a “scheduled” railroad and cut expenses dramatically. Their operating ratio dropped into the 60’s and they made a ton of $$$.
In the mid 90’s they purchased the Iowa line back from GE (I think). I never quite figured out the purpose of that repurchase, but it is still in the system.
Like several other mergers in the past, the CEO of the purchased line became the CEO of the new entity. Hunter Harrison became the CEO of CN and over the years their operations have improved.
IC shareholders have done extremely well over the years. My investment in IC stock has multiplied 10x.
Sad to see the old IC go, but it is a much better railroad now than 25 years ago.
ed
ed
I don’t think the IC was much worse off than any other railroads in the 60’s and 70’s. They had some business gems that did fairly well, such as chemicals out of the Baton Rouge-New Orleans line, unit train coal business out of southern Illinois and the Chicago-Memphis-New Orleans intermodal business. There was also a good amount of GM auto and parts traffic and they also had some good years with train load export grain moves out of Illinois. They started the branch line abandonment in the mid 70’s.
I believe that as President, Harry Bruce started the sale the secondary lines such as Paducah-Louisville, Chicago-Omaha, the ex Alton & Southern lines, and the Meridian Shreveport line. His objective was to trim the railroad down to the major mianlines so that it might be an attractive acquisition for another carrier. He was on the mark, but it may have taken a little longer than he hoped.
I have heard that story about Moyer’s getting the idea to tear up 2nd main tracks and install CTC while he was taken a shower. If that was true, he must have fallen off the turnip wagon just the day before, because several carriers were already doing just that.
Your holding the IC stock certainly was a good move.
Didn’t IC buy back the Iowa Division line for the Iowa grain traffic as a result of UP’s taking over the Northwestern?
I remember Geraldo Rivera did a 60 MINUTES fearmongering piece back in the 70’s on IC’s ROLLING BOMB train from Gulf Coast refineries to Chicago. How it was a ticking timebomb. "Changes will be made, BUT WILL IT BE IN TIME?!! " [:0][:o)]
That may have been a motive, but they got it back when they bought the Chicago, Central, and Pacific.
GC-6. Geismar to Chicago was mostly tanks and had some scary lading, but I don’t recall any incident that caused a release of lading. The Baton Rouge yard is in the middle of the big oil refinery-don’t know for sure who owns the refinery now. I was in the yard office one day and haz mat suits at the ready for an emergency, but a yard master said if something happened, there probably wouldn’t be time to get the equipment on.
In that environment, one gets fatalistic-what will happen, will happen-otherwise the nightmares will get you.
Jay
Whew, there are a lot of misconceptions floating around in this discussion, time to clear a few up. First, whether a railroad (railway) is a Class I, II, or III, has nothing to do with size, track mileage or whatever. It is solely based on its revenues. In the early part of the Twentieth Century there were over 100 class I railroads in the US. Note that to be correct Canadian Railways and Mexican Railways cannot by definition be Class I railroads. Over the years mergers and failures have whittled the list down to the present seven. While it was independent the Wisconsin Central was only briefly a Class I railroad. As there revenues grew the Wisconsin Central, the Montana Rail Link, and the IMRL, petitioned first the ICC and later the STB to raise the revenue requirements necessary to be a Class I railroad. Why did they do this? Because being a Class I railroad carries a significant burden of reporting financial, and operational statistics to the government. Generally Class II and Class III carriers only file annual reports. Class I carriers have to file reports Quarterly and Monthly, and they are more detailed.
For coburn35, did you know that the DM&IR was a Class I carrier for more years than it was a Class II carrier?
The current seven Class I carriers are Union Pacific, BNSF, Norfolk Southern,
CSX Transportation, Grand Trunk Corp. (represents all CN owned US railroads),
Soo Line Corp. (represents all CP owned US railroads), and Kansas City Southern. Don’t believe me, take a look at the Surface Transportation Board website, after all the Class I definition is set by them.
CN/IC is a service mark, not an actual corporation, much like the Soo Milwaukee System, and the Family Lines before them.
Yes, but the official, legal name they use on documents is CNIC. And im not to sure your right. I believe Class is based on route miles. But i not sure. And yes, DMIR was a class 1 for a long time.
Don’t believe the financial basis for Railroad Class status?
Look here on this STB document footnote at the bottom of page one;
Otherwise look up 49 CFR 1201 and find it for yourself. It is codified into US law.
Re: Illinois Central Railroad versus Canadian National/ Illinois Central. Go to the Illinois Secretary of State website and check it out for yourself the Corporation is legally the Illinois Central Railroad Corp - ILL Corp # 59366122 there is a note at the bottom saying that the corporation is doing business as Canadian National / Illinois Central (CN/IC).
Oh, my mistake about the classification.