Reading the strings having to do with various apsects of the hobby I am led to wonder whether the current generation of model railroaders is as competent in their modeling skills as the generation active in the '70s and '80s?
I, of course, have my view but I would like to hear what others think and
why.
Randy
Judging from the lack of customers at the Hobby Shops I visited this weekend, I think the hobby needs every current generation modeler it can get… competent or not so competent. If the interest is there, the skill will eventually follow.
So I dont have to type this all again, I copied this from the Pet Peeves topic:
Pet peeve,
Manufacturers taking the model out of model railroading with all the RTR rolling stock and locos. Pre-built and lighted structures, EZ-track. I know that nowdays people have less time to do everything,but let’s face it, the more we buy the pre-built ,RTR, EZ stuff, the manufacturers are going to shy away from kit products. I pesonally like to sit down in front of the television with a quality kit, paints, glue and make a structure look the way I want it to. I could just as easily take a pre-built and paint and weather it, but that doesn’t feel right. Myself, I get a certain satisfaction from knowing I turned a bunch of loose parts into that great looking drug store or roundhouse. I think the younger “modelers” are getting off way to EZ.
Hell, the generation before me probably thinks the same about kits. They had to build just about everything from scratch. Now days it’s hard to find scratch building materials at the LHS. Soon kits will vanish as well. Just a thought. Dave
One thing I’d suggest is that most modelers who get past the introductory stages of model railroading eventually start building kits. A big concern in the industry right now is not enough beginning model railroaders–and RTR equipment is what brings them in, since they are at the low end of the learning curve. If we get a good-sized influx of model railroaders into the hobby, eventually those folks will get more involved and interested in building kits and scratchbuilding and whatnot–and hobby companies will respond in kind.
I see no shortage of scratchbuilding supplies or kits at the hobby shops I frequent. There is plenty of both, and I see plenty of people buying them. Some folks stay around the trainset aisle and RTR cars sections–but if they keep coming back to the hobby shop, eventually they’ll end up in the aisle with the basswood and start imagining interesting things to do with them…
well im only 17 and i have won best in show for my models (engines) the past 2 years so i think i represent this generation pretty good. im on my first layout 18.5x10 and i have had many members of my club say its very good. so i think i have the modeling thing down.
Very few of us start out competent, we develop skills over time. So be patient with the newer younger folks. Second, as surprising as this might be, alot of people are in this hobby because they like trains, not because they like kit building. There are a whole lot of folks having a whole lot of fun with Lionel.
Part of the fun of this hobby is doing it your own way. I use alot of RTR not because I can’t build kits, I can and have and still do. I have also done some scratch building in the past and plan to do more in the future. But in the meantime I am getting the layout up and running.
Frankly, RTR is what this hobby needs to survive. If everyone had to build it all from kits, we would be in serious decline. Case in point is S scale, this used to be the “scratch builders” scale and was in such serious decline that I skipped it in the 70’s because I was afraid it would die before I could get started in it… Now it is the RTR scale. American Models has dropped the kit versions of their rolling stock for RTR and Showcase Line has always been RTR. This keeps S alive and allows the kit makers to have a market and allows me to work in the scale knowing that basic stuff will be available in the future.
Finally, who cares if they are competent. I am in this hobby to have fun - not pass a test.
Enjoy
Paul
Personally, I feel that the current generation of modelers is MORE competent than any previous batch. (assuming, of course, that we’re really talking about MODELERS here, and not toy train players or RTR addicts). Current modelers are cranking out model railroads that, freelanced or proto, are far more realistic than anything done 20 years ago.
Check out the resin freight car series in Craftsman to see what resin modelers are coming out with, and compare it to NMRA contest winning cars from the 1970s or 1980s. Resin kit builders are blowing away anything built even ten years ago. Look at scenery on most model railroads featured in MR 20 years ago versus what’s being featured now, and it’s obvious that modern layouts are for the first time truly looking like the great outdoors.
True, much of this is due to the availability of good materials available today, but it’s also due to many modelers caring what their models look like. The acceptance of prototype modeling into the mainstream has done nothing but improve all aspects of this hobby, and has allowed the average modeler to produce superior model railroads (even if they’re freelancing).
I could approach the question from another direction. I believe anyone who has the desire, dexerity and time will excel at this hobby.
With that said, I myself have learned from other members of the family by watching them work. And later in life other people giving small presentations and simply buying a kit and trying to build it. Sometimes it turns out well other times the results were pitched into the parts bin.
Regarding the availiablity of scenery and products designed to fill out a scene really is awesome and makes it possible to build a convincing kit with out too much labor.
I would look at some of the very old issues of MR at some of the photos of scratchbuilt kits or even just raw materials by both average and skilled builders and really see no difference in the final result. However I would think that a proper number of sheets on a toilet roll hanging on a wall of a privy is a bit much. Even so, I applaud and celebrate anyone of any age who builds things in this hobby.
Lee
With all of the advances in materials and tools, I think that the quality of models today is vastly superior to those of thirty years ago. However, I think that the modelers of a generation ago had to have a greater skillset and be better craftsmen than we have to be today. The skill set needed today differ from those needed thirty years ago.
There are a lot of competent modelers in the hobby today.
as you know i just started. i was nervous to buy kits because i didn’t want to screw up a perfectly good kit with my poor skills of putting them together. so what do i do, i started out and bought all RTR stuff. then i bought two P2K locomotives with a little assemble like putting the shell on. so i bough a couple kits. and now i’m starting to put them together. they may not look that great but as long as they turn out decent and can run i’m happy.
i’m not the most competent modeler out there but i think over time i’ll begin to get a lot better at building kits and buildings.
Competent? i guess that you would have to define competent.
The question is, with all the technology & sports available to people these days, the question should be asked “Is there anyone out there who has the time to spend on an excellent skill to learn & hone?”
I know I don’t, not right now.
Maybe when my kids are in university, in about 16 years.
Gordon
Well, I’m 13 and just getting started. I personaly like EZ track becuase then I don’t have to put down roadbed, etc. I’m mainly buying RTR’s now but maybe when I’m older I’ll try a kit. I’ve not done one yet becuase, like Hawks05, I don’t want to mess up a perfectly good kit with my poor skills.
As the last post said, it depends on your definition of competent. I would say that there are as many competent modellers now as there have ever been. What I have noticed is a seeming reluctance (at least in the UK) of older modellers to use the new techniques and equipment. For example, there seem to be very few takers (at least in magazine articles) for the new close coupling systems which to my mind make a massive improvement in appearance. I’ve seen one article about creating an express passenger train for a large exhibition layout where the modeller acknowledged the existence of this equipment and went on to say that they hadn’t tried it!
Once the Atlas forum is back up and running (the staff is on holidays), check out Sunday Nite Foto Fun in both the HO and N scale forums to get an answer to your question.
I also agree with the poster above who said that on average the current layouts are visually vastly superior to layouts of old. Part of that is due to Woodland Scenics coming along and helping us out, part is do to higher expectations, and lastly there are better techniques available now. I never did like dyed saw dust for grass, for example.
Competence, like wisdom, comes with time and experience. A person is not a competent driver the day they get their drivers license nor are they competent in their job the day they are hired. However, given time and experience a person will become a competent driver and a comptent worker.
With time and experience modelers become more competent, gaining wisdom from their achievements and failures.
Yes, modelers with 20-30 years experience are wiser and more competent than the “current generation” with only a few months or years of experience.
As defined, modeling is to produce a representation or simulation of something and competent is having adequate ability or qualities. During the process of producing a representation of something, i.e. modeling, we develop our abilities becoming more competent. When I read posts on the various forums, what I see is the wisdom and competence gained from positive or negative experiences.
IMO using “out of the box” RTR rolling stock and pre-built structures & scenery is not modeling it is simply putting together a scale RR. Not everyone in this hobby is in it to become a competent modeler, rather they are in it for the operations aspect or to watch a train roll along tracks in a fantasy world.
Reading the posts I find that the majority of us buy RTR motive power as we don’t have a machine shop to create the neccessary parts. However, modelers take the RTR loco and detail it so that it fits their era and road to as close to prototype as posible.
The learning experiences of our now novice, “current generation”, modelers builds the foundation for the competent modelers of the future. Check back on this forum in 20+ years and you’ll most likely find
I met a guy i a LHS who built his first ever attempt model railroad, scenery and all. He did it for something to do while out of work on an injury. He invited me over to see it. Now you could see his apparent lack of knowledge (or care) in general regarding real railroads on this layout, such as he was running modern cars with steam loco’s. I didn’t critique, that’s not why he invited me there.
But at the same time, for a first layout, I was very impressed. the scenery was great, with lots of forest and rock moldings, the roads appeared to be plaster or something that he applied by hand, not some pre-fab street stuff. The overall effect was quite nice, all this by someone who never made any such attempt before. I gave plenty of sincere credit or praise. I even picked up a few ideas. I was modeling in the late '70, and in the '80s
So the point being, don’t under estimate the potential and current skill of the new set.
Dan
The question is rather snobish and arrogant don’t you think? I’m rather offended by it. It implies you think they are not or you wouldn’t of posted it. Maybe if the current self proclaimed masters would share their knowledge rather than being condesending us younger people would be better in the skills? It’s like a couple months ago I got an old unpainted tarnished brass FT shell. I posted on this forum how to prep and paint it. I to date have recieved zero, I repeat, zero, 000, replies. I posted how to weather wood to get a warm gray tone and got no good usable replies. I got use this or that but none gave the results I asked about. I found the answers to both my questions at a LHS. So why don’t you know-it-alls share instead of criticising? Help us instaed of acting superior? FRED
FRED,
You did get an answer to your FT shell, http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6416.
You did get a lot of very good advice on your how to weather wood question. You just didn’t seem happy with their help.
If you got better info to your questions at your LHS then why don’t you share the info and post it back to your original posts and help us?
Do you want to be one of the “know-it-alls”, keeping the info to yourself, and won’t share, just criticise?
BTW, how do you weather basswood to look like old sun bleached never been painted oak?
I believe the current generation of modelers is as competent or maybe more competent than us oldtimers. There is room in this hobby for both RTR and kitbuilders. The hobbiests of today have more choices and can opt to persue those aspects of the hobby that gives them the most enjoyment such as scratchbuilding, kitbuilding, operation, layout design etc. I buy some items RTR because assembling a kit for those items - especially ones with zillions of parts and a lot of tedious assemblies (eg. truck frames) - is not my idea of fun. I get much more enjoyment out of scratchbuilding than assembling a craft train kit. There is a much bigger selection of scratchbuilding supplies available today than there was in the past. It is true that many LHSs don’t stock a lot of scratchbuilding supplies or certain items, but there’s always the internet and the arts and craft stores where you can find a tremendous selection compared to most LHSs - and at much more reasonable prices.
Times have changed and we are operating with a different, faster paced mindset today.
While scratchbuilding is not as widespread as it once was, the art has not dissappeared. Many modelers on this forum still show off photos of models that they’ve kitbashed or improved.
The technology today that makes DCC and sound possible is incredible. I find it intimidating and yet, for kids like my teenage nephew, it’s a breeze.
Today’s generation is “competent” and capable of leading modelrailroading forward. Perhaps in different areas or disciplines of this hobby but yes…very much so!
Big 10-4 on that!