I haven’t always had my track (most of it early PW, when my father was young) stored in ideal conditions, but with few exceptions the rails have shown very little rust over the years. It had a dull grey appearance and felt a bit meat-ier than the more shiny track sections, but I like that look anyway and never thought much about it.
I recently bought some used track which is of a similar look and feel - and the seller indicated that this track was in fact manufactured by Lionel using a galvanized finish. So my question is: does anyone have information to share on Lionel track that was manufactured using galvanization?
Well, well, JTrains… three days and not even a guess. It would seem we don’t know very much about the metallurgical history of Lionel tubular track on CTT forum. I confess I know nothing except it works very well with magnetraction.
I often read about galvanized Lionel track, but always suspect the writer does not know Lionel tubular track is tin plated.
There is an easy way for you to find out if your “galvanized” track is galvanized or tin plated.
Galvanized means either hot dipped or electroplated with zinc. The half cell potential of zinc is -0.76 volts. The half cell potential of tin is -0.14 volts. The half cell potential of copper is +0.34 volts.
If we make a battery using copper and zinc the potential difference should measure approximately +0.34 - (-0.76) = 1.1 volts. A copper and tin battery should have a potential difference of approximately +0.34 - (-0.14) = 0.48 volts. The reason I call these voltages approximate is because we are going to use a weak acid for the battery electrolyte, white vinegar. It will not be a strong battery. Expect the voltage to be a little low.
For the copper electrode I use a copper ground wire or strip a length of copper insulated wire. I stripped an eight inch length of 14 AWG house wiring for this test. For the zinc electrode I cut an eight inch length of 16 AWG galvanized steel wire. For the test rail I removed one 8 3/4 inch rail from the ties of a piece of track.
Scrub the the electrodes with steel wool. The sample pieces have to be bright and shiny because we do not want to measure the voltage of copper, zinc or tin oxides. The samples have to be cleaned down to elemental metal. (If you use an SOS pad, be sure to rinse/wipe all the SOS soap off the electrodes.)
Lionel did make galvanized track for a brief period. I have not commented before because I don’t know the details. I do know that one of my train buddies was looking to acquire some in order to complete a boxed set.
I assume there was a materials shortage, so I would guess the track was made either right after WWII or during the Korean war.
I will try to remember to ask my buddy the next time I see him.
Thank you CWBurfle. Hope you friend can shed some light on Lionel Galvanized track.
Here is one of the “often read about galvanized Lionel track” sites I refered to:
"Things you need to know… …but they don’t tell you…
Traditional O/O27 track consists of three galvanized-steel rails connected by three metal ties."
Reference: http://www.thortrains.net/needful1.html
We may run into a problem with semantics on the meaning of “galvanized.”
Below is what my buddy wrote back. I did an internet search on “Lionel Grey Track”, and found a thread on another train board. Folks interested in the subject might want to do the same.
I have seen Lionel track with silver ties instead of black.
So, this is why I love this forum - one member asks an informational question, and another member goes and creates a research experiment! Nice job webenda!
Anything more than simple battery design goes beyond my chemistry knowledge, but I offer a couple of questions on constructing as accurate of an experiment as possible:
In the case of track, would having a bi-metal cathode alter its potential? Only the outside of the rail is either tin or, potentially (ha – chemistry joke!), zinc the inside is still steel. Using rails in both batteries would seem logical to cancel any effect – but perhaps there’s something in the interaction between the differing plate metals and the steel that could introduce unknown variation?
Also, does the relative mass of the cathode vis-à-vis the anode introduce another variable that materially alters its observed voltage potential? IOW, could making a cathode using a wire of mass A in one battery and a track rail of mass B in the other introduce a confounding variable?
I’ll add a few other comments/suppositions to the thread:
I have quite a bit of old track that would seem to fit this “galvanized” profile. If galvanization was used, unless my father just happened to buy it all at some precisely “correct” moment in time this would lead one to conclude this was the standard manufacturing technique for some period of time in the 1940s or early 1950s. In this vein…
…there seem to be few references to this topic on the Internet (thus my reason for asking my question). This tends to makes me think that it wasn’t – for if it had been, it would seem to be the sort of fact that would have been researched and discussed many times over in authoritative Lionel history analyses. Much more obscure aspects of Lionel produc
I’m from Missouri, so I will say still there was no galvanized rail used for Lionel “O” or O-27. O-27 ties, perhaps.
It seems reports of galvanized rail is actually the patina taken on by track used & stored in different environs. I’ve seen a literal cornocopia of different patinas, or tin plating, but never any galvanization.
My initial train set was a 1958 027 outfit. The track had shiny rails. Some of ‘dad’s’ track that got mixed in to expand the set had a dull grey finish.
I never gave it much thought, other than ‘dad’s track is different than mine’. I now have what I assume to be dad’s first train. It is 027 and dates to the early 20’s. This might date the track with a dull grey finish to the 20’s?