After nearly 4 years of running my 4 x 8 empire with only 2 small wires (3 of those years with DCC), I’m confronted with the fact that I need to start looking into installing a real track bus to power my layout. What particular impetus has lead me to start investigating this new endeavor, you ask? Two words: Power frogs.
Let me back up a moment, if I may. My roster is made up of 2-8-2s, 0-8-0s, an FT and F3, and a couple of short wheel-based, 4-axle diesel switchers. Up until this past December, I had been using Atlas Code 83 “Snap” turnouts on my layout - with very few problems. However, desiring a little more realism, I decided that I wanted to replace my Snap turnouts for some slightly larger turnouts.
First, I tried some Atlas #4s. However, because of some dissatisfaction with the operation of the Atlas #4 turnouts with my P2K 0-8-0 and Trix 2-8-2 (derailment and shorting), I looked into and bought some Fast Track (FT) #4.5 turnouts off of eBay. These particular FT turnouts come already wired for power-routing or live frogs. With my assortment of short wheel-based switchers, it makes more sense to go with the live frogs so that I don’t run into stalling problems.
Since I’m planning on having manual throws for my turnouts, I picked up some Caboose Industries 220S ground throws, that come with the 3-pronged contact for power-routing. With a helpful diagram from the Fast Tracks web site, the realization began to set in that a track bus was essential, if I was going to do this thing right. I thought to myself, “Hey, no problem. I had wanted to eventually put one in anyhow.” [:)]
So, I’ve been studying several references - both in book-form and DVD - and have come to the conclusion that I want to use 14ga wire for my track bus and 22ga for my track feeders. I also like the idea of connecting my track bus and track feeders to my layout via terminal strips, for easier instal
Tom, you do realize that we will be expecting photos and that everyone will expect this wiring job to be incredibly neat!
Terminal strips will introduce negligible resistance, nothing that you should be concerned about.
I prefer to anchor my terminal strips to something more solid. How about adding some additional 1x3 joists so you can attach the strips to them?
Don’t forget the drinking straw method of poking feeders through the foam. 1 1/2" of foam has the potential of being frustrating when it comes time to feed the feeders!
As you already have your layout supported by a 1x3 frame and it only 4x8 I assume that you have two or more braces running from side to side and the wire is not that heavy. (double-00 welding cable is) Using “Gorilla Glue” should do a fine job. Use masking tape to hold the wirers in place while the glue dries. Or you could even use the masking tape to do the job in the first place. Then just screw the terminal strips to the support 1x3’s and your done. Use the feed wires that you already have just add the bus.
I’d be a bit concerned that Gorilla Glue might eat the foam, so I’d be careful there. I’d rather run a wood strip somewhere, you’ll want to be able to screw the terminals down tight.
Powering frogs has been around for ever on the forum. Mine are all DEAD now since most of my eauipment does not have an issue. Will I power them later, probably, the wires are there. Caboose is a good way and very simple.
Terminal strips: you are using the 2 sided barrier strip with the dividers correct. these are great and easy to use, a little pricey. I used teh Euro Blocks, they are whit and you can just cut them to length. Very good price at the Shack on them.
Feeders: Bus shall be STRANDED and Feeders Shall be Solid.
The feeders are NOT requied every 3 feet, 6 feet works well. In you instance I would feed all the spurs, main lines that way you kknow you have no problems.
Are you going to go with circuit breakers or use light bulbs? This way a short in one area does not take out the whole thing.
Word to the wise DCC will WELD an engine to a mismatched frog in a heartbeat, do not ask.
Your comment was perfect: “Thanks for the help. My hope is that this thread might come in handy for someone else who maybe starting to contemplate how they might best wire their layout for DCC. Tom”
I am back to the hobby after many years and bought my first strands of 14ga stranded bus wire for a test bench [as my starting point so I get the hang of wiring and soldering and feeders etc…] and stands of 20ga for the feeders.
Had some touble finding wire. Got only standed 14 ga at Home Depot. The other problem was getting 22 or 22ga wire at Home Depot? Being in Canada, anyone have suggestions where to go for wire at a good price? The guy at HD said to take telephone 22g 4-wire strands and split it open. Cheaper that way?? So I will try it.
I am designing my layout in my mind with scribbles on paper and am nowhere ndear to where you are.
My biggest fear is the turnout wiring - insulated or not and where do I go from here.
Good luck with your layout and hope to hear from others on my questions too.
#14 wire is great for the main track bus, and I used stranded #18 for the actual feeders. A careful solder job and they will not be seen. I used Scotch Lock IDP connectors to attach the feeds to the main track bus. I have 8 track bus sections and they all are terminated at terminal strips. Since I have 2 boosters, and a pair of PM42’s - All 8 bus sections are covered. You can glue 1/8" Masonite to the underside of the foam with something like PL300 or any other ‘foam safe’ adhesive. The terminal strips can then be attached to the masonite(works great for Tortoise switch motors as well).
The Caboose Industries ground throw with the SPDT switch works quite well. They do take some time to install. A friend used 3/16" plywood to make ground throw ‘pads’ that are glued to the top of the foam(matches the cork roadbed). He uses his power miter saw to cut a ‘kerf’ in the pads so that nothing fouls the throwbar. A long drill bit and ‘soda straws’ route the power wires after he has pre-wired the ground throw. Most of his turnouts are DCC Friendly Walthers-Shinohara code 83. My layout has Atlas code 100 and I have not powered the frogs at this point in time. I have few ‘short’ wheelbase engines and have had no problems with my Atlas code 100 turnouts.
Looking at the picture of your layout, this is a good time to get that final electrical/track stuff done before starting serious scenery work! Good Luck!
George, I agree with everything else you said. Why? I used solid for my main bus. I see no advantage to using stranded for the main bus. Six one half dozen the other. I would be curious as to why you say Stranded for the Bus?
Thanks for the responses and the input everyone. [:)]
Okay, here’s my wiring diagram that I’ve come up with so far:
Click picture to enlarge or click the following link:
This is the view of the layout, as if you were lying on the floor underneath it and looking up. (Sorry if it’s a little difficult to read or decipher.)
Track bus #1 covers the mainline (green) and passing siding (olive).
Track bus #2 covers the secondary (angled) line - with the possibility of extension down to some future staging track area.
Track bus #3 covers both the Yard (red) and servicing (gray) track areas.
There are five (5) 1 x 3 joists supporting the foam top. The way I figure it, there should be enough 1 x 3s to attach the terminal strips to them, and not to the foam. (See diagram above)
I’m planning on having track feeders approx. every 3’ or so. I originally envisioned 22ga. I may bump it up to 20 or 18ga.
Since the layout is only 4 x 8, I’m not sure yet if I’ll go with circuit breakers or not. I may - just for the practice and experience.
I did practice installing a 220S ground throw to a Fast Track turnout on a scrap piece of plywood. Those ground throws really force the points against the side of the railing quite nicely. [^][tup]
I’d like to install the ground throws on top of a piece of cork roadbed next to the turnouts. I plan on using both latex caulk and track nails to adhere it to the foam top. Any reason why it shouldn’t hold well?
So, do you see in flaws in the diagram the way it’s drawn? Is there a
The stranded wire will flex and not break under the table. You WILL bang into it and do other not so great things to it in the course of building. I drilled holes in my L Girders to pass the buss wire through it and being stranded I could pull the wire to my hearts content and not worry about kinking it. I got some CAT 5e wire from a job site and used that for the feeders. They work perfect and solder real nice and easy. Remember that CAT 5e is 8 conductor so if you get 4 feet you are getting (8) 4 foot pieces. Got and end of roll from Home Depot for $40.00 still have about 30 ft on it.
Way too complicated. You are using too many terminal strips. [:)]
It would be simpler to hook multiple feeders to the terminal strips.
It looks like you have 3 seperate blocks. All the feeders from a block can be pulled back to 2 terminals on a strip. That’s 6 terminals for 3 blocks. I see 5 terminal strips, maximum, one on each wooden brace. Main bus “daisy chained” to each strip, the “feeders” or taps to the track from the strips.
Are you soldering the rail together? If so, you can use less taps.
I think you would have to do an awful lot of damage to break (from flexing) # 14 solid wire. If you broke the wire, I would hate to see the layout… I got mine (along with quite a bit of #12) from romex cable I had laying around the house. I have not had any problems with it at all and like the fact that it is not flexible under the layout. It can be bent into any shape you want and it will stay put and was easy to use under the layout. Different strokes for different folks I guess. I really think that either would do the job fine. The CAT 5 cable is great. Wish I had some laying around back when I wired for DCC.
Thanks. I forgot to mention that. Since I’ll be using 3’ sections of flex-track, and each section will have it’s own set of feeders, I will be soldering the sections of flex-track together. The only exception will be the power-routed turnouts. They will have two sets of the feeders.
I plan on doubling up on feeders as much as possible. I’d also like to keep the feeders short, if I can.
On the mainline: Is it best to adhere the turnouts down first then install the flex-track inbetween those turnouts? Thanks.
Using two 3 foot sections soldered together means feeders or taps every 6 feet, max. Soldering the rails decreases the number of taps needed.
Electrically speaking, you really only need taps on each insulated, non-soldered rail section. Any more than that is overkill. Any soldered rail should be electrically one solid electrical circuit, theoretically.
Tom when you SOLDER the track DO NOT solder them all together. You need to allow the track to move a little. I soldered the CURVES then installed them. Then I did every other Straight track section.
The SAFE way is to TACK the turnouts since they can not move around then build to them. I used push pins to hold the tunrouts. Another piece of advice is to start with the most COMPLEX trackwork then expand fom there. That trackwork can not move around so you have a base point to start with. I did mine that way and it worked out fine.
Tom, if your curves on the left and right are soldered flextrack then you really only need one set of feeders to the curves. There is also a small spur on the lower right that does not have a set of feeders, I think it needs a set.
My rule of thumb was that every piece of track be soldered to something for a direct solder connection to the power bus. Either it is soldered to a pair of feeders, or an adjacent piece of track. I insulate all spurs from the turnouts, so they always have their own set of feeders.
Not very important on a 4x8, but if you plan for that puppy to grow, I have a suggestion.
You have made the bus longer than required. If intead of running it completely around the perimiter, you ran it in both directions from the power supply and split it at the far end, the electrical path would be shorter. If you are never going to expand, then you don’t have to split it. You can use a complete ring for power, but you cannot use a complete ring for “Loco-net”.
Unless you are using more than one power supply, I would look to make the electrical path as short as possible, rather than running multiple busses.
On a 4x8, none of this will matter. I just have a tendency to always plan for expansion. Who knows what will occur to me in the future. [:-^]
Thanks for the input everyone. I’m understanding most of what is being said and suggested. I will revise my plan and post sometime in the next day or two.
Simon, I drew the electrical plan in Word then sucked it into Paint so I could create a .jpg to post. Crude but it works.
Click picture to enlarge or click the following