Are there any modelers out there who would like to see a line of cast metal car kits introduced to the market by a commercial manufacturer? If so, what scales and cars would you be interested in?
Cars?
Do you mean rolling stock or vehicles?
Cast metal tends to be heavy, and putting all that weight high up would make rolling stock difficult to pull uphill and also top-heavy. Keeping weight down to the NMRA recommended level would be difficult.
While I would love to see more kits available for almost anything, I think their declining availabilty is indicative of the market, unfortunately.
True, rolling stock cast would be heavier. But it also tracks better. Rolling stock was what I meant, and what prototype equipment, and the scale to see them in, were what I meant.
Cast metal car kits? You mean like the Model Power Metal Train line of products? Thanks, but no thanks. The only cars in that line that were worth buying were the flats because they were actually the NMRA recommended weight (I have two). All the other cars in that line were far too heavy.
If one needs to have extra heavy cars to keep the cars on the track, then perhaps one should fix the track…? Just sayin’…
Paul A. Cutler III
Does anyone remember the old Varney lines, and the like? Back when cars had a wood floor, and cast metal bodies? Back when you supplied the trucks? And remember the old paper sided cars with die cast frames? Nothing I’d personal be interested in building. However, I know that most rtr cars leave a bit to be desired weight wise (at least here), and that kits are almost impossible to find. That was why I was checking the interest levels. Although what about if the kits had diecast frames and plastics sides and/or roofs?
At Boothbay Railway Village our rolling stock collection includes a number of 50s vintage cast metal kits. Some are in running condition; and, after upgrading worn out trucks and couplers, are running regularly on the layout. Manufacturers include Roundhouse, Varney, and maybe some others.
Given the level of detail in current plastic kits, a new manufaturer of metal kits may have problems getting buyers to accept this “new” metal material.
Ancient and expensive manufactering process not likely to return.
Many of us who have grades on the layout don’t want heavy cars as they significantly reduce pulling power.
IMHO - Kits are far from “impossible to find”. True that they are becoming a rarity as new stock in train shops but the market is flooded with older kits on Ebay and other secondary markets…Many of us have piles of kits to build and they are being recycled out to market place on a regular basis.
In addition companies like Westerfield and Sunshine (to name just two) are still producing beautiful kits.
On car weight - There is a small but growing contingent of modelers (Mike Confalone) who are super weighting their cars for realistic operation. I dare say that the grades involved are more gentle and it certainly wouldn’t work on my RR but there are modelers that swear by the practice of adding lots of weight to cars.
Your mileage may vary,
Guy
Jack,
Having grown up with those old metal and composite kits and seeing them replaced with all the newer injection molded plastic cars I fully understand why they are no longer around except on feebay and at shows, etc. They were crude compared to something like a Red Caboose, InterMountain or Atlas/Branchline kit. They were heavy comparatively. They either had no trucks or they were so inferior to those we have today on plastic kits. I can see no need to return to the past as a manufacturer or modeler unless, perhaps, if you just want to relive a favorite car kit from your early days but I’d think one would seek it on feebay, etc.
After all, even MDC/Roundhouse, Athearn, Varney and others changed from these kits to plastic. Maybe that should be a big clue?
Not trying to be nasty, but from my many years of experience working in various hobby shops throughout the country I doubt a lot of newer modelers would be attracted to those type of kits nor could they be able to build one anyway. I have had numerous modelers in the shops incapable of installing KDs on simple cars like Athearn and Stewart/Bowser and many have issues trying to assemble Stewart/Bowser or InterMountain and other detailed plastic kits.
I don’t think a new version of metal kits is worth pursuing.
My 2¢,
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
So, no interest whatsoever for rolling stock kits of any type?
And thus the need for RP20.1…The cars was to light and roll like a brick.
Terrible days of the hobby.
I think intermodal cars would be nice. My Walthers spine cars are metal and perform far better than my Athearn spine cars. Double stack cars would benefit from being metal also. These type cars are always light if made from plastic and always require extra weight to be hidden in the trailers or containers. With a metal car, the weight is the car.
Yeah I remember them, although my old metal Varney kits had sheet metal bodies and metal diecast underbodies. Here’s one of them with upgraded details:
At the same time, Varney was already switching to plastic, like this tank car:
Model Die Casting had some cars which were all cast metal, like this low-sided gondola:
…but they also moved to plastic, although some models kept the cast metal floors.
Authenticast offered this depressed centre flatcar in cast metal, a good use of the material, but they’re long-gone:
Ulrich made some nice (for their time) cast metal hoppers and also this well-done GS drop-bottom gondola, along with a good-looking line of cast metal highway trucks. All of these command good prices at train shows, but the market isn’t, for the most part, younger modellers.
Kits are still available (Accurail, Tichy, Atlas, Bowser, Red Caboose and, of course, craftsman-style kits like Westerfield, F&C, etc.) However, some newer manufacturers also offer limited amounts of their r-t-r stuff as kits.
This Rapido meat reefer came to me as an undecorated kit:
[IMG]htt
I’m not as quick to dismiss your idea as some others, but I think the idea has to be modified a bit. I have built craftsman kits from some of the long-gone kit manufacturers, and have seen some with very nice cast metal components. Some particular examples were the Quality Craft (distributed by Pro Custom) B&O I-1 caboose and the Quality Craft/Gloor Craft PRR Nd 4-wheel cabin car. I replaced a lot (most?) of the wood parts with styrene, but used most of the supplied metal parts. I kept the Nd pedestals and brake shoes, and I used the cupola components, steps, and other components on all the kits. The resulting cars were not overweight by any means. In fact, I probably should have added extra weight to them. With good wheels added to the Nd, and good trucks added to the I-1’s, they track well and look very good. I’ve done the same with NYC and Erie caboose kits from the same manufacturer, but unfortunately no longer have those cars.
It’s true that a freight car built entirely of cast metal (like the old Ulrichs, early MDC’s, and others) would be pretty heavy, even if supplied with the superior trucks available today. But cast metal might have a valid use in a kit that uses other materials for some parts. Cast metal can carry a good level of detail and can provide a bit of weight where it’s needed.
Likely candidates would be one-of-a-kind or unusual cars that would not be used in large numbers (i.e., no unit train cars). I also like a nice, heavy caboose to keep the slack stretched, so that would be another possibility.
Tom
I can see how my last post might be interpreted that way…I have built hundreds of kits and have lots more on the list (seven file boxes full). I enjoy building them quite a bit. I think that there are large numbers of us out there that build rolling stock kits.
As for new kits, I’m not sure what the market is saying about demand. My thinking is that there are quite a few unbuilt kits out there that may be soaking up or even outpacing the demand. That said, I still buy kits (and sell ones that I won’t build).
I model early - mid-20th century Class one/shortline steam. There are lots of kits to choose from in that time frame. I haven’t checked but I am sure that there are kit makers keeping up with the more modern cars of the last 40 years.
If one were to produce new kits, I would look to make models of cars that haven’t been offered before as kits. A niche to be sure…
Guy
I have modified the idea a bit, for not flat-like cars, to use plastic parts since I can use similar molds, but the spine ones are not a bad idea. What scales, peeps?
HO is the most popular, but has the greatest range of items already available. Every year it seems there are fewer HO scalers who want to build craftsman kits.
O, S, N, and Z can always use items that are not otherwise available. I’m not sure, but there may be more kit builders in the O and S groups than in the N or Z scale groups, but there may be more N scale modelers than O, S, and/or Z scale modelers.
Everything I said above is opinion. I could be misreading the whole situation.
Tom
Yeah, and it would also let you run them empty. I’m always amazed at how many empty well cars there actually are in a train around here.
My dad just bought 12 campbell scale model kits, a fine scale miniature #170 sawmill and 2 tichy crane and boom cars. Said he was getting ready for winter and got 10 of the campbell models for just $265. Hope he gets to model this winter as last couple he hasn’t had time for anything.
Well then, I suspect I have an idea as to where to start. Were there ever plans in a publication for the spine cars?