I am planning a layout. In some places the curves will be 36" or better, but in two loops the mailine will be only 24". Is this good enough for long passenger cars to negotiate, and big steam locomotives which are not built to accomodate 18" curves?
Or is 24" still too close to 18 to be sure of smooth running?
The switches will be Number 6 or higher.
welcome ,welcome ,thats a good question,and honestly it all depends on the equip.,some well make it some wont …,the track layer,because 24" is the bear minimum track laying has got ot be as good as it gets and transitions a must…,the operater ,got watch those speeds,and train lengths…and the observer,85’and 24" outside curve gives some a crick in the neck from watching… #6 should be fine but to some up …test your equipment and track radius from every angle…then you can go to @ 30" radius [:D]Jerry…ps run a search on "min radius " or “85’ cars” ect youll find a lot of info…
No, presuming this is in HO scale… You’ll need something like a 30"+ minimum radius. No. 6 turnouts will do, but no. 8’s are preferrable for cross-overs because of the S-curve configuration between the two parallel tracks.
Mark
A 24" radius is fine for running 6-axle Diesels and 50´ cars, but for long passenger equipment and inter-modal cars, as well as the “Big Boys” of steam, you´d better go with 30".
You need to know what you will be running and how it performs on curves near their engineered minimums.
Take the Walthers ‘heavyweight’ passenger cars: they are very long and have 3 axles on each truck. Walthers says, right on the side of the box, that 24" is the minimum. Well…good luck. Many cars won’t make it around such curves when they are coupled. Some will. The question is, will you get two or three that run well together, when coupled, around the stated 24" minimum? Most of us find we have to do some scraping and paring of plastic to get the trucks to turn enough so that the cars will stay coupled or railed on 24" curves.
Generally, the huge majority of HO engines will run on 24" curves with the exception of the longer brass ones. BLI’s mighty 2-10-4 from the Pennsy, the J1, is rated at 24" minimums, but most of the individual engines can we talked/walked around 22" curves.
So, you will have to make a list of items you really want to have running on your 24" curves and then ask here and elsewhere for factual reports from actual users. In other words, be specific and ask about particular equipment on the 24" radius curve.
As for turnouts, I use Peco Streamline Code 83 #6, and they are very generous for all my large steamers. I suspect a true and well-made #5 would be fine as well.
-Crandell
Cheaper passenger cars like IHC/Rivarrosi and Athearn will work on 24" but not higher quality stuff like Walthers or Branchline 85’ers.
Long cars with body mount couplers like bigger curves.
If you’re running 6 axle diesels and rolling stock that’s 60’ or less then the 24" will do fine. However for big passenger equipment and the big steamers (larger than a 4-6-2) the bigger radius the better. 24" can be used but the end throw on 80+’ equipment will be almost comical and a big steamer like a 4-6-6-4 or a Big Boy will look like a toy.
Just a suggestion. Set up a temporary oval with 24" radius track (like maybe 4 packs of Kato Unitrack 24" radius Walther’s p/n381-2220 an a pack of straight Kato 381-2170 14"). Run the rolling stck in question a number of laps around it, varying train lengths and speeds. See first if operation is dependable, and then if the visual aspect is acceptable TO YOU. This will give you some guidlines as to what you can and cant do. If you want to, you could even add a turnout or two of the frog # you expect to use to check the operation in several different track arrangements.
I’ve done that a couple times in the past. About 30 years ago, I found that nearly everything I had, including a couple 6 axle diesels and a Rivarossi 2-8-8-2 could operate reliably at scale scale speeds. Only things that had trouble at that time were some Rivarossi 85’ heavyweight passenger cars and an Ambroid 1 in 5000 kit 96’ Tobacco Hogshead car.on 18" radius. When I went up to 22" R, only th Tobacco car had dificulty. And that was with snap track. Later, when I got to see some videos of large articulateds, like the Big Boy and Challenger, on curves and yard switch networks, I decided that they looked like they had more boiler overhang than that 2-8-8-2 on 22".
I recently used some Bachman E-Z track to do a temporary oval, and found that while I have more cars that don’t like 22" R than before, everything I have operates well on 26" R curves and #5 switches. So, when I build my next layout, I intend 26" r minimum for mainline and engine terminal, #6 switches on main, and will probbly still use down to 18" and Snap and as low as #4s for branchs and spurs. I have limited room to work with, so I will have to compromise. And the tighter the radius, the shorter the train possible.
I gues the rule of thumb is go with the highest your layout will accept. If you can squeeze a couple of more inches it would help. Even if large passenger cars will work they won’t look right with 24 inch. It’s why I run MP54 coaches which I believe are 50 footers.
I have to agree with the prior posters. The short answer is, no.
I have some Walthers heavyweight cars that I have to modify to get to go smoothly around 30" curves. I also have had many brass loco’s that wouldn’t even attempt a 24" curve. So in my experience one has to go to at least 30" minimum for all purposes. When I finally get around to building I am considering 44" or larger minimum.
As I have said before, an ounce of experiment trumps ten tons of opinion.
Take some flex track and set up a test spiral, starting with a carlength of tangent, transition to 36 inch radius, then decrease the radius by 2 inches every (chord length of your longest car - over coupler faces) down to 'way less than you intend to use. Run your rolling stock into it - singly, coupled, longest coupled to shortest (humongubox to ore jimmy) and so on, in all permutations reasonable and unreasonable. Somewhere on the spiral you will find the first radus that everything can pass without going on the ground. That is, or should be, your minimum radius.
Then, too, where are those 24 inch radii on your layout. If they are, or can be, hidden, they will not be an eyesore if the spiral test proves that you can operate over them. If you can’t, it’s time to step back and reconsider.
My own mainline minimum is 610mm (24 inches) - and I know that I have to put an intermediate-length car between my four-wheelers and my auto rack and/or container flat. I can live with that.
My private railroad has 350mm curves - a tad under 14 inch radius. It’s embargoed to anything that can’t take 300mm radius on the spiral. (An unmodified Mantua 2-6-6-2T CAN take 300mm - but then, its 3 foot gauge prototype was designed to run on curves which scale down to that in HO.)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Lawrence:
I’m going to go with Texas Zephyr and several other posters on this one–a 24" is going to limit your big steam and 85’ passenger equipment considerably–especially if that passenger equipment consists of Walthers heavyweights. With big steam you’re still going to get an overhang between loco and tender, and the possibility of derailments. With heavyweight cars, you’re going to end up having to do a LOT of under the car truck adjusting to keep them on the rails. Walthers 24" radius minimum suggestion is WRONG, IMO. It should be 28-30" at the least.
Most of my big steam is brass–because of the railroads I model, not a ‘snob’ issue (as I’ve sometimes been accused of, LOL!)–and there’s not much that I could safely put around a 24" radius. Most of them are far more comfortable on a 30" minimum (my absolute minimum is 34") because of tighter brass tolerances.
So if it’s possible to re-think those 24" loops, I think you’d be a lot happier. At least IMO.
BTW, you brought up an awfully GOOD topic! [:)]
Tom
All purposes ? Short answer - NO
Most articulated will stay on track but look slightly odd
My Big Boy, Challenger and DD40ax’s all handle Peco code 83 No 6 points even at full speed
If you’re not too concerned with how things look, you can try to find a copy of the January 1965 MR, an article entitled “The Mostest track in the Leastest space”. To extablish a layout for himself and a couple munchkins, the builder set up a layout with two ovals, one with 18", and one with 22" radius track, and a bunch of #4 switches. The layout was on a 4’ X 6’ table. The reporter, Bill Rau, labeled it as one of the busiest and most interesting operating layouts he’d been on, in spite of its diminutive size. Trains were made up with switchers ranging from 0-4-0 T to 0-8-0, and trains were pulled by LARGE brass, 2-8-2, 4-6-2, 4-6-4, up to an Akane 2-8-8-2. Apparently, from the text, trains (obviously not more than maybe 10 cars) were run sometimes with two articulateds, apparently all brass, without interference.
Of course, the passenger cars, the longest cars on the layout, were only 60’.
Remember, you only have to satisfy yourself.