I am thinking a little more about how this crossing was protected. Certainly lights and gates are the epitome of crossing protection art. They should be all the protection that is needed. As a further measure, they can be set up to prevent running around the gates.
What seems relatively unusual with this crash site is the speed limit of the road. Seventy mph is no big deal, but I can’t recall seeing any roads in my location with an active grade crossing on a 70-mph road. Around here, seventy is only allowed on some freeways, and never on a two-lane highway. The two-lane highways are 55-mph speed limit, and they will pull you over at much over sixty.
But out in the wide open, with little traffic, with a long way to go, on a straight highway with a 70-mph limit, and sparse law enforcement, I could see some major vehicle spe
I’ve seen advanced warning lights for crossings on 55-65mph roads.
Even if you lower the limits - it’s all about control of your vehicle. Apparently the first driver didn’t have it (or there was a problem out of his control).
Lowering the speed limit would be meaningless if it is not enforced.
I’ve seen rail crossings here in Arizona along the Union Pacific Sunset Route that are so far out in the middle of nowhere, even though they are state highways, that law enforcement rarely, if ever, enforces the posted speed limit simply because there are not enough police to patrol every road.
The Nevada state highway where this accident occurred seems to be a very similar situation.
That’s a good point…and maybe the crossing mechanism wasn’t working properly. I’ve seen that happen in downtown Toronto. In my case I called CN and they fixed the problem…after I witnessed a train almost broadsiding a crowded city bus. The wig wag came down alright…and then went up again…and THEN the train came barrelling through…
Lots could have gone wrong here beyond the obvious. I hope John Davis has everything in order. It looks like he runs a first class operation judging from the FMSCA info available…but if there’s even one discrepency in that driver’s log or if there’s anything like a missed drug test then he’s cooked. I feel bad for John Davis… looks like a family business built up over years of hard work…only to have this happen… its tragic for them as well…
Bucyrus: Much of what you say about crossings and speed limits, although true in the East and some of the Midwest, does not apply out West. If you want to make rails with passenger trains running at 60-90 mph safe from cars and trucks, we need to begin a program of systematically eliminating low volume crossings and grade separating the rest. It will take time and money, but there really isn’t any workable alternative.
Many, MANY years ago, Nevada had a “Reasonable and Proper” speed limit for the open road. The premise being that if you had an accident, then your were probably speeding, and conversely, if you did not have an accident then you were traveling at a reasonable and proper speed. Maybe that tradition/mentality has not subsided yet.
I think that Bucyrus has hit upon a good thought. There should be a reduction in the speed limit in the area of RR grade crossings, just like around here there are reductions in the speed limit at major highway intersections (whether signaled or not).
Of course, if drivers pay no attention to the signage, then posting such limits is just a waste of the earth’s natural resource, so strong enforcement is a method to help drivers obey the limits, if not for safety, then for protection of the wallet.
But, to say that some official looked the other way, is to imply a criminal act. Not that such could not have happened, but just like the RR rules were written in blood, so are, too often, traffic regulations.
A signal malfunction is always a possibility, but my premise of this thread is the assumption that the crossing signals were functioning properly. They just were not up to the job with such high vehicle speeds. So what is required is to get that speed down in advance of the crossing and raise crossing awareness at the same time.
How about a series of signs, say a minimum of two. The first warns of an upcoming crossing, and maybe 100 yards further, the second would ask, 'Do ya feel lucky, huh?" Then, for icing, about 100 yards past that, a big screen would replay endless loops of video showing crossing collisions.
Maybe that would work?
(Yes, a bit facetious, but…what else is there to do other than a warning sign that a crossing is coming, and maybe a mandated speed zone/reduction to 30 MPH within 100 yards of the crossing?)
Even so, it is like gun control laws…the bad guys don’t read, apparently.
There used to be (might still be, but I haven’t looked) a web site devoted to the advertising campaign. It listed all the signs (sorted by the year they were first installed). The signs were almost all removed sometime after 1963 when the company was purchased by an other one. A few were missed by the crews hired to remove them.
My Dad’s favourite was:
Spring
Has sprung
The grass has riz
Where last year’s
Careless drivers is
Burma-Shave
It was on a highway between Indianapolis and Salem, Indiana and he would always read it aloud as we passed. I remember a couple of others along that same route, or an alternate one we would sometimes take. On a long vacation trip one summer, looking for them was a great passtime for us kids. I think I have seen about a dozen different ones…don’t remember them all, but I copied the web site’s list so I have a complete (hope) list to quote from in forums.
70 MPH is nothing Unusual for a Western Road remember this NEveda is over 400 Miles Across East to West on I-80 and over 400 Miles North to South. The drivers out there are used to driving at 70 MPH on those roads. Also people need to remember this about the collision we still have no clue about what caused the Driver to hit the train yet. Plus he was a local driver and they get to be Drivers of Habit and not expect trains at certain times when htey are on time. The CZ was running 5 hours late and according to the Drivers brain was not supposed to be there.
Closing off some of those roads in Nevada would result in causing 20-30 mile in extra length in runs each way for School Busses heck anyone that drives. Just because you think a road is not needed 2000 miles away and are monday morning Quarterbacking like no tomorrow. The locals on the scene are the ones that would know what roads are needed.
Where I live there is a standard for signage at rail crossings. I don’t know if it is a Kansas law or something different. If I remember the rule correctly, there is a simple sign 500 feet from the crossing in each direction of the highway. At about 100 to 150 feet from the crossing on both sides there are pavement markings on each lane in each direction that look like this:
RXR
There is usually a shoulder on a two lane highway for vehicles who are required to stop at all rail crossings to drive onto so other vehicles may safely pass them.
A look at satellite photos of the crossing (N 39.89585 W 118.75208) show that the pavement markings are there, albeit much farther than 150’ out, and that the crossing signals appear to be mounted on cantilevers, which they are, as verified in video from the scene.
The crossing is also equipped with gates, also seen in video and still images from the scene.
The resolution of the satellite image is not such that one can determine conclusively if there are roadside signs a distance out from the crossing, but I have no doubt that there are.
Are you serious? Did you see the photographs of that crossing. Even if the speed limit was 100 mph and there was NO crossing protection, a person with his eyes open would have been able to see that train in time to stop.
How about speed bumps close to the crossing, with suffiecintly advanced warning signs. I’m not talking about like what you’d see in a parking lots; I’m thinking something engineered to be safe and comfortable at whatever the posted limit is, while at the same time designed to spill the coffee and rattle the dentures of someone significantly exceeding the limit.
These could be put in for a fraction of the cost of more traditional protection. One great advantage is that they would be almost zero maintenance, would not rely on electronics, and would work in any weather.
Once one of these concrete cowboys get their head bounced off the ceiling of their rig, I’d bet they’d slow down next time.
A news story on CNN indicated that there were three trucks running in a convoy (possibly racing) and that the drivers of the other two saw the train from quite a distance away and slowed down. They also said the signals and gates were working properly.
Perhaps Bucyrus is a lawyer looking for someone to sue. The driver was an idiot. Its unfortunate for the other folks on the train who paid the real price of his stupidity.
Eliminating crossings is surely the best way to eliminate the hazard for both vehicles and trains, but there are other less costly measures that could at least improve safety if not completely eliminate the hazard.
In blaming the truck driver, I notice a tendency to want to assume that the driver was completely incorrigible, and therefore he would not have heeded any form of safety restriction such as lowering the speed limit over the crossing. But that may or may not be true. One thing is for sure. The driver was not heedless once he saw the train.