I have an HO layout and all of my engines run on the block system with Atlas Selectors. I’ve been doing some thinking about DCC. Can the DCC Power Packs be hooked up to the block setup just like a standard Power Pack?
Basically, the answer is yes. Depending on the size of your layout and the number of engines you run, you can either just wire the whole thing together like one big block, or you can divide your existing blocks into “power districts” to share the power load among DCC boosters while still maintaining seamless control over your locomotives wherever they are on the layout.
A well-wired DC block system converts very easily to DCC. My only word of warning is that about 10 minutes of running DCC will have you completely hooked, and you will not want to go back to DC. Yeah, it really is that good.
As MisterBeasley says the short answer is yes. My first conversion to DCC was to remove the two wires from an MRC Ampack and replace it with the two wires from a DCC system. Just make certain every single selector is changed to the DCC “cab” and that the other power supplies are OFF. Under no circumstance should you try to use one of the DC cabs as a power supply for the DCC. The DCC power supply must be totally separate and isolated from anything else in the entire system.
Using the Atlas selector switches, is it reasonably safe to have both DC and DCC routed by the selectors? Seems to me that each block would be EITHER DC or DCC, but could never be both.
I am considering doing exactly the same thing with my small layout which is wired for common rail 2-cab block control. I don’t have very many feeders for the common rail, so I will have to add more. Off the top of my head, I don’t recall if ANY area on my layout is totally isolated in both rails. It’s common rail wiring with no reverse loops. I suppose I should put some insulated rail joiners around the layout in the common rail before I convert to DCC. My thought is to cut up the common rail, install feeders to the sections of the former common rail, bus all those wires to a terminal strip and hook one side of the DCC to it. I don’t see how the DC side could be wired then without interfering with the DCC. Only one side of the DCC would be totally isolated by the selector switches, the other side would be cross-linked with both DC and DCC. I can see where it’s possible to have both DC and DCC trying to use the common rail at the same time. One would have to be VERY careful to completely shut down one or the other to avoid cross-linking them through the common rail. If so, the only real solution is to replace the Atlas selectors (SPDT) with DPDT switches to keep the two completely separate. The DPDT switch would be wired with the center terminals feeding the tracks and the outer terminals wired on one side for DC and the other for DCC. Am I right in this line of thinking and would that type of wiring work? (Don’t ask me why I am trying to keep the DC! I’m old and I resist change and I can’t afford to convert ALL my locos to DCC at one time! I still want to be able to run more than one DC loco on the layout.)
I am a total ignoramus when it comes to DCC. You’d think if I have the ability to master block contro
Certainly. In fact, it is best to run DCC with blocks anyway. I am not at the moment, but will divide my layout into probably four blocks, because it is not that big. Having blocks in DCC enables you to quickly run down shorts and other gremlins rather than taking forever to find them.
I would recommend double gapping everything and switching to DPDT block switches. I would also suggest having feeders every 4 to 6 feet.
Do not try to run DC in one block and DCC in another, if one of the locos should cross the gap you will most likely fry the DCC system. It’s really an either/or situation.
Most but not all DCC equiped locos can run on DC, (some require a jumper to be moved on the loco and some just don’t run on DC). But a DC loco siting on a track switched to DCC could fry the DCC system, (the DCC system would see it as a short).
My new layout will be blocks in DC. However, the common rail will be broken into three zones for super fast conversion to DCC if I ever decide to retire my 20-40 year old engines.
retire? you don’t have to retire anything. If you have say an athearn, you can put in even only a 2 function decoder ($16) just solder the wires (4 for drive) and then the lights and walla! If you’re thinking of buying DCC equiped to replace your entire fleet you may have to spend quite a bit of cash.
I just wanted to repeat this, since it was buried in the middle of a post. It sounds like a good idea, but it isn’t. sooner of later you will cross a boundary, and something is going to burn.
I did exactly this, I bought an MRC Prodigy Express and plugged it into CAB B on my Atlas Selectors and run my DCC equiped locos with no issue. When I’m running DCC, I remove my DC locos from the system and vice versa.
I put in Digitrax DH123AT 2 function decoders in my 20 year old Athearn locos and they run great, no soldering required. The AT includes a wiring harness specificly for the Athearn blue box line.
HEdward, I switched to Digitrax and just kept running my old engines on address 00. The only limitation is that I can only run 1 DC engine at a time, but I can run it with as manyDCC engines as I can control. I was going to upgrade all my Dc but they run so well I have not gotten around to it at all. Once I added radio, running trains was more fun than I can ever remember.
Isolation. My Geep is from the 70’s as are both the F units. My Lionel HO switcher, well, the entire frame is live electrically. It isn’t a large fleet. I had all my rolling stock on two 4x8s in an L shape. I bought a B&M Mogul from IHC recently to represent the Danbury RR Museum whose annual colectable cars have their own little train. That’s the only DCC adaptable engine I’ve got. Moving to DCC will also mean adding more operational activities on the layout. Afterall, if all I’m going to do is run trains around the folded dogbone folded figure eight, I can stick with DC. I’d replace the passing siding/passenger station area with a yard and engine service facility. Move the passenger station to the upper level and make other moves as needed. A stockyard spur at the farm or an industry or two for a local to switch. The urbanization of the line, as in the “prototype”, would require newer technologies. More signals, more cars, trucks, streets, people, etc. That should keep me building and rebuilding for years. That is half the fun, right?( not tossing parts against the wall )
All Athearn Blue Box locos are like that as well - the frame is grounded to one rail. That’s how they pick up power - a metal tab on top of each truck rubs the underside of the frame. This is not what disqualifies a loco for DCC. What IS important for DCC conversion is that newither of the motor brushes is touching the frame. It doesn’t matter if the frame is ‘live’ as long as the motor is or can be isolated from the frame. In the Athearn example, the bottom motor brush clip as an extra tab not ont he top one, which rubs the frame. Clipping this off, plus a thin layer of insulating tape, solves this problem very easily. The Digitrax harness, which is available separately and works with any decoder with the 9-pin plug, so you aren’t limited to using Digitrax decoders if you don’t want to, solves this problemt
Does one really want to take a few old Bachmann engines that don’t go for $30 new and convert them? The Lionel HO, the entire thing seems to be one piece. It is small. Very small and has a broken axel. I’d rather just upgrade the fleet when I’m ready. I think a nice switcher and three road units, one for the local and two for the long through freight. An F or FP type for the Amtrak train and we’re done. Four engines won’t break me in the long run. I’m also not trying to be the super PM that some aspire to be here. I just want it to stay fun and always have room to change. That’s why I’m using blocks, but thinking about the DCC wiring needs for the future. Granted, the changeover will be rather sudden, but the expense will be spread over at least a year. In 120 square feet of space, do I really need more than four trains?
Yes, that’s a really good point. I started with a small fleet of engines from the 50’s and 60’s. (That’s when the the models were built, not the prototypes.) I went through the learning curve of isolating motor brushes and soldering in wiring harnesses for decoders, only to find that the engines ran very poorly under DCC. Yes, I actually did put decoders in a couple of rubber-band-drive Athearns, and they ran around the track (really fast) but the performance was terrible. Sure, I could have replaced the wheels, trucks and motors, along with the couplers and headlights, but by that time I’d be well over 50 dollars, and all that would be left of the original is the frame and a cheap plastic shell. Instead, I found new engines at M.B. Klein for $40. I gutted the old-timers, and now they run as dummies.
I did manage to get an old gear-drive F-7 running well enough to keep its decoder. I’m also in the process of converting an Athearn band-drive Hustler to gears with the Ernst kit. That’s not really an economics-driven decision, though. I just want to see if I can do it, and besides, I think it will be fun to paint this old clunker up as an industry-owned switcher in its last job before the scrap heap.
Left out another good reason to change the whole fleet. M&StL, PennCentral, Union Pacific, Sante Fe and Amtrak. Not that I’m trying to get to be a super perfectionist PMer, but consistancy might make this all look better, especially as the operational aspects become the focus.
There is no reason to double gap anything except where the power district boundaries are. At the power district boundaries double gapping is required. Trouble-shooting is just as effective with common rail block wiring. Usually, the other issue with common rail wiring is insufficient feeders in the common rail for DCC. I agree with your recommendation of feeders (both rails) at least every 6 feet.
These are important points when hooking up DCC as a replacement for one of the cabs in DC wiring. Operate the layout as one or the other. While some DCC systems allow operation of ONE DC locomotive, some do not (Digitrax and Bachmann do; NCE and Prodigy Advance/Express do not).
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W