is it normal to do bad track work at first ?

Model Railroader Layouts and layout building
1

its my first lay out ,reading & study for two years .I can solder rail ,install HO sound /dcc,build factory’s (cornerstone )[swg],but of every 10 ’ of rail & roadbed I lay I end up tearing up and redoing two feet cause its not striate enough,off center of the roadbed ,to close to the edge ( almost like I set a section and when I go out the next morn, somebody move things around ) is this part of the learning curve ?

or am I just not paying enough attention to what am doing,I really thought laying track & road bed would be the easy part. I do enjoy laying it (its just cork & flex) but I don’t like redoing it the next day. its a challenge to get striate sections really striate once the dap grabs it …Jerry

2

Hi, yes it is part of the learning curve. I use a long carpenter’s level, and a vanity mirror graciously lent by the lady of the house. The level could by replaced by a straight piece of wood, (the longer the better). Start the track at 1 end and place the wood up tight to the ends of the ties. Pin the track so it doesn’t creep sideways or lengthwise using T-pins or map pins or whatever is handy, and leave them in place until the glue dries. Prop up the mirror so you can see the track centreline going off into the distance, and adjust the pins and track to get it straight. This is really great where you can’t get your eye down low to look along the track because of a post or some other obstacle.

Have fun, George

3

Hmm, maybe it’s your process of laying track. What I do, is use 2" drywall screws on the outside rails, on straights and specially curves, it keeps the track in place when drying. For roadbed, I place some weights on it while drying.

Another tip for straight track, use one of those cheap yard sticks to line up the track. Just press the track against the yard stick for a straight alignment. Then use the drywall screws just touching the outside rails, but not too tight, just enough to touch the rails (in between the ties).

4

When starting out go real slow and be meticulous. Don’t have that “I’ll fix that later” syndrome. Fix it now before you go any further. Before long your speed increases without you noticing. Don’t have the “that’s good enough” attitude. Do it well the first time.

Use a yard stick or a long piece of dead straight lumber to butt your long straight stretches of track up to. Pin it down as you go using “T” pins. After a few months of test running when you’re ready to caulk it down get out that straight edge again and slide the track up against it before the caulk sets.

Brent

5

Well, yes, basically, most of us learn by screwing up and doing it over. I had to rip out a bunch of track the first time I laid it out, too.

OTOH maybe you are rushing things a little bit. Get yourself a good straight edge and a way to measure curves (I use a piece of scrap lumber with a nail in one end and several holes for a pencil) in the other). Sight along every piece as you lay it, and make sure it’s right, right, right before you go on to the next piece.

If you’re using adhesive caulk, you should have plenty of time to align things before the adhesive sets. The flip side of that coin is that, if you don’t have something holding your track in place, it WILL move – especially flex track. Most brands try to return to “straight” after you put them down. I weight mine with scrap lumber and pavers (yeah, those bricks you use for patios) for about 24 hrs after laying, and sometimes stick a couple of track nails in to hold things until the adhesive sets up.

6

I use two different methods to weigh down my freshly caulked track. Method #2 required vast consumption of Beer before turning the power back on.[swg]

Brent

7

Yes, laying track, like any other craft activity, requires some practice. You also have to find the technique that works well for you. I draw the center line for the track on the subroadbed using a yardstick or long very straight board for the straight sections. Then I lay the 2 piece cork roadbed to the line. Then I center the track on the roadbed - I do this by feel. There are other techniques - experiment until you find one that works for you. The key is, I do each step just as well as I can.

Enjoy

Paul

8

There is a learning curve to everything in life. Some of us start at 0, others have some experience in a similar activity, so they start a little further along the curve. Also our progression along the curve depends on many factors.

Laying cork and track does take some planning to get it where we want it. First, you want to be sure your cork is where you want it. Have your track plan laid out, then draw the centerline where you want it. Then lay the cork, hold it down with T-pins or something similar, so that you can check and see that everything is where you want it. If you are having trouble getting the lines straight, try using a yardstick or a shorter straight edge. The longer the edge you use, the fewer oops occur. For curves use a stick with a pin pivot in one end and a pencil at the appropriate radius for your curve. (When laying cork, offset the ends so as to eliminate as much bump as possible.)

Once you are sure your cork is where you want it, take it up and put down a thin bead of latex caulk along the line. Spread it thin with a putty knife, spread it thin enough so you can see the center line through it. I only spread the caulk about as far as one piece of cork will go. Replace the cork, you should pin it temporarily on the curves and it is a good idea to put some weight on it to hold it down solidly while it dries. Paint cans, bricks and books all make good weights. Don’t try to do too long a section at a time, until your skills improve.

When you are sure the cork is where you want it and the caulk is dry, lightly sand it to take off the rough edges. If it isn’t where you want it, take a putty knife and slide it under the cork carefully and it will lift off with some care.

Another thin layer of caulk on the cork, just as under it will work well to hold the track down. I used the T-pins again, putting them through

9

I am not using cork but WS Foam roadbed, and depending on whether the track is going on foam or plywood here is how I do it. I use DAP Latex Caulk for both the roadbed and the track. There are a few places on plywood where I just nailed the track, but that is the exception.

I make sure the roadbed is dry - leave it overnight and then when I lay track - I spread a thin layer of the latex caulk and lay the track on. On foam I use round toothpicks to keep the track straight (or curved) as it needs to be. The toothpicks hold the track nicely in place and go through roadbed and foam well.

On plywood, I do what other here have suggested - normally using heavy stuff to hold the track in place - full paint cans, bricks, large rocks, piles of National Geographics work well.

10

If using flex track on curves, keep the rail that slides on the inside. It is easier to cut rail then adding more if you do not need to.

11

Is it normal to do bad track work at first?

Does the sun shine? LOL

I am on my third layout, and the learning curve is, indeed, great.

When I constructed my first layout, I naively thought that I could just nail down track on plywood and all would be just fine. Major mistake. I nearly quit the hobby due to derailments.

I took my time, so to speak, on my second layout, but derailments were still a problem because I was inexperienced and did not research the subject of track laying sufficiently.

On my third and current layout, I still struggle somewhat with shoddy track work. On this layout, I used Woodland Scenics Foam Track Bed and nailed down flex track. The problems were everywhere. Someday, I will do a fourth layout, and perfect track work will be my number one objective.

Good track laying starts with good benchwork. My bench work is 1/2" plywood screwed on top of 2x4 frame work. If the surface is uneven, bows or cups, or anything short of even and level, trouble lies ahead.

My second problem is my continued determine to nail down the track. When you do this, you clearly risk dips and humps. No, you don’t risk dips and humps, you create dips and humps because it is nearly impossible to nail each and every nail to the proper depth. Besides the fact that nails are not prototypical, they don’t look good. My fear with using caulk is that there is no second chance. You have to get alignment perfect on the first attempt before the caulk dries.

If you have even and level bench work and you decide to carefuly caulk the track work, there are several issues to be overcome. The track must be absolutely straight. Use a pair of carpenter’s levels, one on each side of the track. Align the rails vertically to eliminate any unevenness between the connecting rails. Avoid dips and humps at all cost. Solder two pieces of flex track together to fo

12

You don’t have to be a rookie to make rookie mistakes that is for sure – with one of the most common being, having the rail above rather than in the railjoiner – and you only notice it when you run your finger along the rail (or worse yet run a train).

Getting good straight tangents is something some guys can apparently do by using the “squint along the rails” method but I use various commercial templates and track tools. Once you have torn out track and wasted that money, the proper tools suddenly look like a good investment.

The thing about track is that at swap meets you can sometimes buy brass rail flex track cheap – there is no sin in using such track to hone your skills or try stuff out even if you would not want it on the actual layout. I did that to try out some curve clearances for my double track main.

Dave

13

very uplifting guys ,its seams my curves & soldering are not causing me headachs but the striates and crossovers (as noted by others ) are my areas needing improvments,and your advise will be incorperated asap (I must have three yardsticks and a 2,3,4 foot levels sitting ther) I was useing the center line method for the track same as roadbed ,never thinking to check with a striate edge of some sort

14

Personally I find that WS foam trackbed and caulk are a bit forgiving which is good. Don’t be afraid to use caulk - just don’t slap on too much - you don’t need a lot. You CAN remove and re-do if you screw up, but the reality is that you have lots of time before the caulk sets to make minor adjustments.

Also - I am of the belief that track does not have to be 100% straight. I’ve seen prototype track with some slight wiggles here and there. I generally eyeball it and it’s good to go.

The biggest problem for me occurs if I try to lay too much track at a time - or have to go back and insert a switch in track that it already laid. It’s always better to plan ahead and do a section at a time.

15

Actually I know some modelers who have built several layouts and the trackwork never improved much. But that is another story. I don’t use cork so can’t relate to it. I am old enough and been in the hobby long enough to remember the wood roadbed, and then I progressed into the Homabed roadbed, which handles a little differently. I also don’t glue track in place, but prefer the method I have used since the early 1960’s which is to glue the roadbed in place, then, I lay the track dry on top of the road bed. I also have a lot of handlaid track which then requires glueing the ties down first, then spiking down 3ft nickle silver rail. Which ever method I use, after the track is secure, I then spread the ballast on loose, shape it and then use watered down white glue and a spray bottle of water with dish detergent in it to secure it. This secures both track and ballast. I can then remove any nails and I am good to go.

Since my current layout was started in 1983, I have stayed with the methods above even into this modern day.

Bob

16

I layout all my roadbed and track and get everything running before i glue anything down… Nothing is worse than laying your layout only to find the end is not lining up with the begining or your misjudged the radius and end up with too tight of curve. once everything is how you want it, then mark out a section, glue down the road bed and track, then when that is dry move on to the next. Dont do too much at once or things will get out of alignment. I use a small amount of caulk and a small section of paint stirring stick, since they are free from your local hardware store, and spread out the caulk to a think layer, put on the roadbed, repeat with the track and then put something heavy on it to hold it down.

17

I have a question for all of you caulk fans.

How hard is it to remove the caulk from the underside of the track?

Has anyone tried using something lime matte medium or Scenic Glue instead?

Rich

18

well I’m getting to be an expert at removing daped down track[;)] so yes dap (Alex plus brown) has a quick grab &hold and dries pretty fast but doesn’t melt in to the plastic ties so when dry ,you can remove it somewhat ,I’m using a 6" drywall knife with curved sides sharpened on a bench grinder (its also my foam cutting knife)and just use a sawing motion where the ties meet the cork being car full not to break the tie plates being rough.

then when reattaching say a 2’ section in the middle of a 10’ run I use a watered down white glue like I was ballasting ,but no ballest…and in my helix where all track is thumbed tacked to 1/2 " ply I plan to use a watered down matt medium dribbled in between the rails after I’m sure the track is good operating flawless…Jerry

19

It’s not hard but it can be tedious to remove it all. I generally bring the piece of track upstairs and sit in front of the TV and peel it off with my fingers, fingernails and a toothpick.

If you are patient - you can get the track perfectly clean. I have found that if you are just re-laying it - you don’t have to get it 100% clean - it can be re-layed with some of the caulk still on.

When I first laid track on my layout I ended up ripping it up and cleaning it off and re-doing it. I took my time and got it all clean.

20

My question is:

What is the proper radius of the learning curve??? :slight_smile:

John