I note that most moderlers, including the folks at Model Railroader, are using Styrafoam or a competitor’s equivilent for scenery these days. At one time I had heard that when it burns the resulting smoke inhaled can be deadly. Is this still true? Also, is it still flamable?
Victor A. Baird
The building codes in this area call for foam insulation to be covered because of the toxic gas problem when a flame hits it.
Smoke detectors anyone?
I have no idea how much of a problem it really is.
Dave
See the following:
http://www.antenocitisworkshop.com/news/blue-foam-pink-foam-foamboard-and-styrofoam/
I think there are different questions to consider:
Can the foam be hazardous when you are working with it? For instance, apparently hot wire cutting can create hazadous fumes. I’d liken that to spray painting with solvent paints. If doing so, take the right precautions as it’s a temporary problem. Also, can you work with it in a non-hazardous way? I’ve used some on my small layout, cutting and shaping it with various tools but not creating fumes.
Is it flammable? Or combustible? And how does that weigh in? See below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flammability
Recognize that much of the typical home is combustible; e.g., carpet, wood studs, kitchen cabinets, foam cushions in furniture, etc. But we use them. They are not highly flammable like gasoline. So if there’s a fire, we may take a moment to douse a small one with an extinguisher, but if out of hand (can’t control or too much smoke or toxic fumes), we go outside and call 911 and hope for the best outcome. But we don’t build all houses out of rock as it’s non-combustible.
So I’m saying that use of pink foam is quite reasonable (it’s probably in your home exterior sheathing). Just use it safely when working with it and if it’s all on fire, that’s not your only problem. It’s not likely to auto-ignite in the middle of the night (turn the layout power off) and poison you unless you are very unlucky. IMO, it’s (using some on a home layout) well within the bounds of the other risks we routinely take.
These guys tested it, with open flames and other heat sources. Compared with other materials found ont he layout, based on these results, I wouldn;t worry too much about using extruded foam
http://www.scaletree.com/foamsafety.html
The beaded stuff, expanded polystrene foam, similar to the material in foam coffee cups - whan that stuff burns, it makes a very thick black smoke. I’m more worried about that than the extruded foam insulation board.
–Randy
In construction, styrofoam has to be contained by other materials. However, I first encountered it as underlayment for vinyl siding, which is a long way from being fireproof. My present abode has a layer of beadboard between the plywood sheathing and the stucco exterior. A single thickness of sheet metal is also considered to be sufficient containment.
Based on that, if your styrofoam is covered with anything reasonably fire resistant, it should be fine. A coat of plaster should cover most situations likely to be encountered in a model railroading environment.
Another item, from personal experience. If something like a hot soldering tip contacts styrofoam it will melt before igniting. In the process, it puts out fumes that anyone with a sense of smell will detect long before the atmosphere gets toxic.
One final point. Ingredients used in the manufacture of styrofoam, which will be released in the aforementioned fumes, are known to the State of California to cause cancer in laboratory animals. (Years of exposure also causes cancer in humans - but that’s to the ingredient-mixing process, not to the product itself.)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with styrofoam)
EVERYTHING causes cancer in California!
ROAR
I second that… Breathing is known to cause cancer in Califonia.
Of course, California is known to cause cancer too, so…
[:-^]
Anyways, to the OP. Yes, foam is still flamable. Yes, it will release toxic fumes when it’s on fire. I’m not worried about that though. Why? I don’t use fire on my layout! [swg] [(-D]
Just to add though, foam is not the only flammable item used by most model railroaders, as we also have paint, styrene, wood, glues, cleaning chemicals, oils, etc… So, am I worried? No. Do I take safety precautions? Yes. After that, worrying about it does nothing. To quote a friend of mine, “but it must work, because most of what I worry about never happens!”
Link to an earlier discussion:
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/220179.aspx
Basically, the way we use it and its characteristic mean it’s actually somewhat resistant to just poofing into a ball of flame. Normal precautions againt fire are the only thing to really worry about, as it’s no more (and no less ) of a hazard than many other modern materials you also have in the home.
Re: code requirements. Your layout is not part of the house, it is contents or furnishings. The code applies to the house as far as construction goes. Because how are you going to drywall the underside of your layout anyway…[:-^]?
Some of you might remember Roger Kujawa’s article about building a layout without legs (using heavy duty shelving brackets) in the August 2003 MR, and how Roger mentioned almost in passing that to insulate his layout room he lined the concrete block walls with 1 1/2 inch blue Styrofoam with a vapor barrier. Then, in the October 2003 issue was a letter from Robert Smith (retired from a commercial testing laboratory) stating that what had been done was a dangerous practice banned by building codes due to the fire hazard, following some tragic fires in the 1970s in foam lined rooms. Smith said the use of foam could result in a raging inferno in minutes, even if the foam had a flame spreading rating of 75. He wrote that codes require that foam be separated from habitable rooms by 1/2 inch of gypsum board and that the problem is not so much that the foam can burn but that the foam creates “outgas” when heated, and it is that gas that fuels the fire. He further observed that many layouts are in small rooms, often with just one exit.
Dave Nelson
As a former Firefighter I can tell you that just about every item in your home has deadly chemicals in them when burned. Carpet and plastic being very high on the “I dont want to inhale that smoke” list, so its really not that big of a worry. If you wantn to get right down to it, a large layout is a hazard because of the amount of overall product used to build it, just as a lumber company would be. The best practice to stay safe would be to install smoke detectors, have an exit plan, and of course keep a fire extinguisher accessible.
I don’t know for US because I’m Belgian, but we have styrofoam on the market here in Europe which is labeled nonflamable.
For my work, i’m a ironworkmen, we use in some construction insulated part whith this kind of styrofoam (a yellow one) and even soldered whith Tig which produce the heatest point ( around 4000 degree celsius) I never see this kind of foam burnt and even given a lot of smoke.
But I agree fire is always dangerous and smoke detector and a minimum of safety rules are first rate to use.
And of course any smoke, vapor or fumes from a cigarette, from a soldering iron , from a spray can, from a barbecue, or from a real fire, are dangerous for health.
Certainly, if you stayed in the room, all the styrofoam burning wouldn’t be good for you. But neither is a burning room. Another factor is that layouts (usually) are not sleeping quarters. You’re awake and able to take action, even if just leaving to call 911.
And while it’s good to think about such things, I think the statistics sorta speak for themselves. You just don’t read stories of “6 Trapped by Flaming Layout.” I don’t recall if it was the thread I cited above or another, but some one recalled asking someone he knew that he thought would know (NMRA official, MR staffer, I really can’t recall) about any cases of fires in layout rooms involving foam and he couldn’t think of any in his time.
Treat it with due caution, but there doesn’t seem to be any evidence that it creates any issue beyond what the furniture and carpets burning would.
Ok, a little fact from fiction here. Even if you throw a burning match on beaded foam, it will not burn for long (resurch and personal experimation), hot soldering iron will only melt it, that being said, constant flame from underneath, not so go. It is almost imposible to have a short cause a fire in foam of this type (it tends to melt the foam instead, national fire foresics testing labs). The hot wire cutters have to be under 457 degrees or toxic gas will be made (Woodland Scenics is set at 425 degrees). Beaded foam is hard to just paint in a layout setting and therefore most cover it with something (I used plaster cloth, when bought in bulk, real cheap). Also edges tend to be covered by a facia board or a solid backdrop.