Found this photo. I asked Flintlock and he was not sure, perhaps just the film throwing off colours.
One steam locomotive is bluish, the other silvery. So is this the elusive Russian Iron? Nice scene anyway. B&O, Balt likely knows where this is.
Big articulated steaming by in the background.
Photo is small and blurry if enlarged.
A larger version of it:
[C][swg]
Thanks to Mr. Jones’ re-posting I was able to blow that photo WAY up.
The “blue” engine and the “silver” engine look like 0-8-0 switchers, and big bruisers too! I doubt very much they would have ever gotten the Russian iron treatment. A bit pricey for switchers.
Considering it’s a roundhouse area I’m guessing they may have been recently overhauled and are waiting for a trip to the paint shop for a little “basic black.”
That big articulated looks like it’s just plain filthy.
Man! There’s all sorts of steam action goin’ on in that shot! What a great picture! Can you imagine what it was like to BE there? What a show!
I’m not sure where this is but sure is alot of B&O on the yard.
Yes it’s B&O … and Flintlock I agree those are 0-8-0’s.
You know, I’ve never been a big B&O fan, although I’ve been to the Museum in Baltimore twice (What a gas!), but I picked up a “gently used” Morning Sun book on B&O power, priced too good to pass up, and man, am I glad I did! They had some beautiful steamers.
I suppose you’d expect that from “The Mother of American Railroads.”
Checked the book, and those are either Class L or Class L2b’s. Too bad I can’t make out the locomotive numbers, can’t give you the specs either.
The two pictured in my B&O book were originally built in 1905 and 1906 as 2-8-0’s and converted to switchers in the '20s. The original construction dates would certainly put them in the Russian iron era, but I can’t see it being used for freight hogs. I could be wrong.
Maybe the B&O fans out there can “fill in the blanks.”
Sure looks like the real deal to me.
We have posts on the ‘true’ Russia iron (which is a mottled greenish color) and the ‘American’ clone of it (which can tend toward the silvery but usually has a range of its own). It is NEVER blue (as in gun-blued, various colors of heat oxide) as Russia iron is a contact process, made by hammering sheets with treatment materials (including several forms of carbon) spread between them, cold work. It is also, to my knowledge, never shiny silver (as that alternative jacket appears to be) – I think you’re looking at some flavor of graphite or aluminum paint applied to the cleading as well as the smokebox, but would be easy to convince otherwise.
Yes, I thought “Russian iron” was blue for a good part of my life, in fact designed several locomotives with heat-blue and heat-purple jacketing (and brass/bronze banding) for the joy of the appearance. Heat blue is NOT generally effective long-term as a corrosion resistant treatment in a steam-engine working environment! (The American clone of Russia iron, on the other hand, was specifically used for metal roofing…)
I’ve done what I could on-line researching just what Russia iron’s supposed to look like, and there doesn’t seem to be much agreement at all from the various sites.
A greenish cast, a dark black metallic look, they’re all over the place, but the general consensus now is that Russia iron didn’t have that “metal-flake blue” color like you’d see on a modern street rod.
Those on the “Model Railroader” Forum, the guys who obsess over this stuff, say the common Russia iron color on American engines was a glossy silvery-grey. The gloss would reflect the sky given the right circumstances and give the impression it was blue, especially with color photography.
It’s too bad the Erie didn’t preserve one of their K-1 Pacifics, or G-15 4-6-0’s for that matter, so we’d know for sure.
So, that silvery 0-8-0 in the picture could have had a Russia iron boiler jacket when it was originally built as a 2-8-0 in 1904 or '05 and kept it to the end, but it still strikes me as an extravagance for a freight engine. But what do I know, I’m not infallable.
I’ve tried looking up those engines and can’t find out anything about how they were finished. We really need “…someone in the know for things B&O” to sound off on this.
Anyway, according to a poster on that “M-R” topic, the National Park Service after exhaustive research says this is what a Russia iron boiler jacket should look like.
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/up119.jpg
And this…
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/cp60.jpg
I’m not going to go nuts over it any more, tonight at any rate, my head hurts!
Overmod mentioned aluminum pai
Considering paints of the day, which were generally mixed as needed with the oils and pigments weighed in specific proportions per the “recipe” there certainly was a lot of room for variations from shop to shop.
Generally, engine wipers were employed to wipe down boiler jackets and running gear as often as time permitted say, during a boiler wash, extended layover or running repairs. There was probably a variety of kerosenes, coal oils or even perhaps linseed oil or turpentine used for this wipe down depending on what the shop foreman or railroad prefered. The underlying paint would return to a gleaming look, if only for a day or two, until the soot, elements and heat took its toll.
CNW_Wipers by Edmund, on Flickr
CNW_Wipers2 by Edmund, on Flickr
I understand, too, that some of the early Kodachrome and perhaps other color films of the time, rendered black as more of a purple-ish hue plus the effects of reflected sky can wreak havoc on color reproduction.
Pretty sure this is the Connelsville, PA roundhouse. Here’s a later view with a C&O F7 occupying the same spot:
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/213919/
All things considered —
Regards, Ed
Thank you Ed. Great information, explanation and pics.
Yes Connellsville,Pa about 50 miles South of Pittsburgh.
Photo by Wayne Sherwin, 1955
The Southern Pacific 4-10-2 SP-1 were painted Russian Iron for passenger trains service (edit: It was not painted but was given the Russian Iron coating). looking at some brass model of it which was factory paint would give us the answer of how the “Americanized” version of Russian Iron looks like. But color changes during a different period of time and weather due to the changing of the color temperature of sunlight or other artificial light sources. It is also not easy to judge through our computer monitor since different monitors have different settings. [I][:O]
I keep seeing this come up - Russia Iron is not paint!!!
Perhaps the best way to explain this is to say it’s an analogy to nitriding for ‘case hardening’, but with the developed surface forming a tough and bend/shock/heatproof protection against water and developed corrosion in the underlying sheet. Most of the ‘paint’ available in the latter 1800s would not do well on a boiler jacket, and look crappy and not hold subsequent coats well when weathered. Heck, even a century later PC couldn’t get railroad-cheap paint to hold up under far less strenuous service conditions…
When you can perform the surface treatment at the same time as the iron is reduced to final thickness – which both the original and American processes share – the economics becomes convincing. The good appearance is likely something of an afterthought (which I think explains in good part why we don’t have ‘conclusive’ descriptions of the color, when contemporary descriptions of, say, passenger-car lining and varnishing can run to multiple pages).
One of you with the interest and time can correlate the evolution of inexpensive steel sheet in the United States with its adoption on locomotives, and with any subsequent ‘imitation’ of Russia iron via paint. It occurs to me that some of the resident Canadians might be able to produce some detail material on this general practice – weren’t there a number of 20th-Century Canadian locomotives with gray or silver jacketing, and wouldn’t the cost of something like Nirosta or Monel be relatively high as an alternative?
Found this article interesting read.
This topic is completely new for me and I found it Interesting! [8)]
So does that mean the color of Russian Iron differ on different steam engine base on how the Russian Iron sheet was manufactured by different places, just like the Brass or any metal which have variation in color? Was there any railroad tried to mimic the color or appearance of Russian Iron with paint to make their engine looks like covered by Russia Iron?
I can see there is quite a lot of discussion about Russian Iron on the web, especially in the railroad modeling world; I am gonna do some research before asking more questions… [C][:$]
The easy to read and very informative article in the link from Tarheeltracks is excellent.
From what I know (which may not be much) Russian iron was more of a 19th century thing so it’s appearance is a little up for contention (try finding a color slide from 1895). Many railroads in the 20th century used boiler jacketing that was painted gray or green, I suspect in some situations it was done to mimic the appearance of their earlier engines which had used Russian iron. Kind of like how the original Wisconsin Central had passenger cars made of varnished redwood; when the Soo Line took over the WC, it started painting it’s cars dark red to match the WC’s cars…as did Canadian Pacific when it gained control of the Soo Line.
The only other way to make an educated guess as to the appearance of 19th Century Russia iron (wjstix is right, ain’t no color slides from those days!) would be to look at Currier and Ives and other lithographed prints from the time period.
The downside is, you’d have to assume the colorist got it right! No guarantees there!
Per Overmod’s “fun and pleasing to the eye” modeling, several years back I repainted a K-Line Erie Pacific into a K-1 lookalike using Testors “metal flake light blue” from the hot rod paint section of a local hobby shop. I now know it’s wrong, but it looks darn good anyway!
Anyway, found some color shots of Erie steam.
http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18677
Photo one is a nice shot of a K-1, the middle engine in photo two with the red number plate (Order Of The Red Spot, awarded to crews who kept their engines in tip-top condition) is a K-1 as well. the bigger engines are later Pacifics.
And just to stir the pot further, here’s the folks on the “ogre” Forum agonizing over the same subject. We are NOT alone!
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/erie-k5-usra-heavy-pacifics
Vince, as Ollie used to say to Stan, “NOW see what you’ve done!”
Good discussion folks!
From Mike:
Historical items and accounts involving Russian Iron
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiuo.ark:/13960/t84j6v09q;view=1up;seq=1
