Is Walthers done with steam?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
41

Sheldon,
I know you don’t model the UP, but I wasn’t talking necessarily about your situation, rather in general about those who have home roads. For example, I helped sell off an estate collection from an old time model railroader who did his own northeast-based home road. He was big into steam, and his home roster included PRR, ATSF, UP, NYC, Union RR, D&H, SP, RDG, D&RGW, SP&S, etc. with an emphasis on articulateds (including a 2-10-10-2).

The modern day “steam reniassance” in HO scale goes back to the original Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0, which was MR’s product of the year in 1998. The Spectrum USRA Light Mountain came out in 1999 and the movement was on.

There is no way there was more available variety in 2007 than today. There’s been so much steam made in the past 10 years, how can there be less variety?

BLI steam is highly accurate…for the expensive versions. If you’re complaining about their generic USRA steamers, that’s how they keep the costs $50 to $150 lower. They aren’t going to change those. And, BTW, neither does Bachmann. My Spectrum USRA 4-8-2 in NH should have Commonwealth tender trucks, but has Vulcans instead.

You hate the hunt for product? Well, what did you do 30 years ago? How did you hunt something that didn’t exist?

Doughless,
I doubt that production resources are a problem in regards to production numbers. Getting it made at all can be trouble (see: Atlas), but once a factory is found and a contract signed, the amount of items made doesn’t make much difference to the factory (at least in model railroad terms; we’re talking thousands not millions). Whether they make 3000 or 6000 units, it won’t effect factory capacity. So expanding one product run really doesn’t effect another’s run. It might delay it, but it won’t take away anything

42

The world is changing and the cost of production is coming down (price is going up but that is because we demand better detail and many want specific detail). Steam has always had a problem with the fact that generaly a bad diesel will run better than a bad steam and the low end is where a lot of people start. This is slowly changing, at least at Bachman which have been moving some steam from Spectrum to regular line as new product comes out.

43

Have we answered Don’s original question in all of this hoopla?

Is Walthers done with steam?

In my initial reply, I noted that Walthers only involvement with steam seemed to be the Proto Heritage line that it acquired from Life Like. Walthers did nothing with it and seems to have abandoned the line.

Is my understanding correct?

Rich

44

Rich,

I guess it depends how you want to define “nothing”. I know that Walthers re-released the 0-8-0 and 0-6-0 switchers (w/ & w/o Tsunami decoders) and perhaps a few of the other LL Proto 2000s, as well. I don’t think they released any new versions of steam after the acquisition though.

Tom

45

Thanks, Tom.

Rich

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Paul, I don’t have the time to go model for model through the whole list, but for example:

New Bachmann 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 vs BLI, while not all perfect Bachmann has several different tenders, headlight locations, tender trucks, trailing trucks - BLI, one size fits all.

Bachmann 2-8-4 vs MTH, Bachmann has pretty decent road specific details, correct domes, tender sizes for C&O, NKP, PM, and easily kit bashed into VIRGINIAN - MTH one size fits all.

Bachmann Mountains, light and heavy, not every roadname completely correctly detailed or correct for the loco, but lot of versions, most close or very representitive, some VERY accurate.

I could go on…

Sheldon

47

Sheldon,
The generic USRA BLI locos are also $50 cheaper than the USRA Spectrums (sound for sound).

48

Honestly, Why would any manufaturer make a new plastic steam locomotive? There are plenty of the basic models available in plastic, and good running pre-owned brass models are abundent and affordable.

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I only own one plastic steamer, a Bachmann EM1 2-8-8-4. It is a maginificent machine, a true beauty. I have three Sunset heavy USRA mikados, they are also wonderful, and I paid about the same as the Bachmann plastic loco.

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As long as brass is available and serviceable, I see no need for much more (if any) more plastic steam. I would much rather see more high quality plastic freight car kits.

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-Kevin

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49

Sheldon–

I didn’t say that and will explain, but first–there were many people comparatively singing the praises of how great Proto steam is and has been, etc.

There are actually some people who were not totally happy with it. I just happen to be the one to actually post something. The 2-10-2 was fussy, and did not work correctly after a pro even fixed it…not some yahoo repair man like my

50

Rich, that is the question after all. Considering they never were a big player in the market, and considering the abundance of steam product on the market, they may be devoting more of their production to the products that demand more supply. Just speculation of course.

Many people thought that Kato was out of the HO market, and then they release another updated run of the GP35 after quite a few years. So who knows, maybe Walthers just feels there are enough 0-8-0s and 0-6-0s out there for a while.

51

Retail maybe, but Bachmann street prices are always lower than BLI street prices - different wholesale discount structure…

A quick survey of new items on Ebay put BLI and Bachmann Mikes at aboutthe same prices, with Bachmann averaging slightly lower…

Sheldon

52

[quote user=“PRR8259”]

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

PRR8259

Well my Walthers Proto heavy 2-10-2 had very cheap valve gear that buckled too easily at less than 45 minutes run time when a screw backed out. Selling dealer repaired but it was no good and didnt work properly. Walthers did replace with a new one which I sold immediately. I did not trust that model enough to try the second one. I really wanted the C&S engine and was very disappointed, and it was not running very fast at all when the valve gear buckled…I just couldnt tell what had happened…till it was too late…Lost $200 dumping the replacement because they were hard to sell. Come to think of it, most brass models held their value much much better than that for me.

Brass fans tell me I am much better off with the more costly brass steamers. The newer ones are very good though also costly but I get what I pay for.

John, do you mean to imply you have never had a problem with a brass loco?

…Well, John, you seem to be the lone unhappy Proto steam customer.

Sheldon

Sheldon–

I didn’t say that and will explain, but first–there were many people comparatively singing the praises of how great Proto steam is and has been, etc.

There are actually some peopl

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There are still some of us out here! I have a 4 year old son and he is a steam lover just like his Daddy (I’m 49

54

I really wish people your generation would stop making assumptions/generalizations about my generation. Im 29. I model the transition era on my home layout (now awaiting re-assembly). I dont typically bring more than one or two steam locomotives to their mechanisms tending to be more susceptable to damage than a diesel. Edit (I dont bring much steam to train shows, I typically run diesel locomotives, due to the before mentioned tendency to be fragile).

My mother was a school teacher in Indiana and

55

[quote user=“BMMECNYC”]

nycstlrr
I am sure my reply will just be blown right over as they usually are. Here are my 2 cents. My kids were raised with Jerry Joes steam on the Ohio Central. I was raised on steam when I was a kid. All of my kids ran on many trips on a Saturday out of Sugarcreek. What better thing is there (then) in Ohio? Run over to Amish county, get some cheese, meat and sodas. And take a trip behind the 1551 or 1293. Kids today no longer have this chance. Jerry quit doing this well over a decade ago. Heck, they even got to ride behind the GTW 6325 when he had it running. Ok, enough of that, it is just whipping a dead horse, as they will never return to Sugarcreek like that. A few years back, we took my son in law and oldest daughter to CVSR to ride behind the 765. My son in law had never seen a steam engine in his life. He is now hooked. That is part of the problem, todays generation has no idea what a steam engine is. I am just thankful NS lets the 765 use their tracks to Bellevue, then the 765 takes over on the Wheeling. If Walthers quits making steam, it is not our fault! Us Geezers know what steam is and we are kicking the bucket everyday. Todays generation and the last few, grew up with Diesel. So, they will model what they see and grew up with, I guess. I grew up in the Diesel generation but I rode steam from coast to coast. Todays middle class, hell, they can`t afford vacations. Both parents have to work just to feed their kids.

I really wish people your generation would stop making assumptions/generalizations about my generation. Im 29. I model the transition era on my home layout (now awaiting re-assembly). I dont typically bring more than one or two steam locomotives to their mechanisms tending to be more susceptable to damage th

56

Sheldon–

Well perhaps I wish I had money in real estate. One point is that used plastic mass produced steamers will not increase in value but the good, limited run brass actually does. There have been several posts in this very thread about the CGW 2-10-4. At least one amazing model of them was done recently. It is a gorgeous engine even better looking than the T&P version. I would love to own one of those models. If my memory is correct the value of the CGW version is up over 50% above the price when new.

I am not in this hobby to make money, and I just blew out most of my lesser priced trains to raise cash to get a neat Rock Island 2-8-2 that was available…I may be soon down to a couple freight cars, 2 nice hybrids and 2 nice other engines but it was worth it and I just broke down and ordered Stagner’s Rock Island Steam Finale even though not a fan of his books.

I am 48, have no memory of steam save Strasburg and Steamtown, butI am enjoying learning about the last years of steam and the truly magnificent engineering that went into both the real ones and the models of them. I reached a pont where I wanted a few nice steamers even if that meant nothing else…I just like watching them run and am looking forward to seeing 1309 back from the dead.

I have no illusions. I am in a minority in the under 50 crowd. Sales of HO steam are not what they once were and it is not about the price structure at all. Perhaps not the big articulateds, but plenty of smaller Proto steamers are on the market. I owned some of them, too. It seems to me the prices have been falling on them, generally.

57

I think there will always be some steam or transition era fans.

However, I am the youngest of a group of guys who were rabid regulars at Timonium…they mostly drifted away from playing with steamers, at least the ones still alive seem to have. I dont know if it is “been there, done that” or just simply that we tend to like what we either remember or still see.

Excepting a guy known as “100 Dollar Bill” for his legendary thriftiness when buying brass, the issue is that most of “our” little group were too young to remember steam.

I am the strange one to go to almost all steam years after having given it up.

John

58

John,

That’s just a foreign concept to me. The three undecorated brass locomotives that I recently purchased were purchased with the idea of 1) converting them to DCC, 2) painting and detailing them, 3) running them on my [future] layout, and 4) having something that was unique to my prototype. While I don’t look to diminish the value of a particular locomotive when I convert it to DCC, its “value” is its importance in my roster; not what it will or will not fetch 5 or 10 years down the road.

Tom

59

Not everyone thinks the same as me. Once upon a time I collected coins. Years ago a bunch of collectors got into HO brass…according to Howard Zane, none of them were disappointed at the value eventually realized when they sold later on.

I dont customize much at all…sold a nice brass piece recently because the cost to have the complex paint job done would have been way more than the model would ever be worth. Instead I spent that money on something interesting and a higher quality much more detailed and painted model, which I will run.

My layout has somewhat generic western scenery. There are a lot of roadnames that can sorta fit in. I just get what I like and run it anymore. If I want to extend the steam era a little bit with late 1960’s cars, then that is what I run.

Enjoy your trains.

60

John, just like Tom said, most of us do not understand your thinking. We are not in this hobby for an investment, or even for “collecting” like coins.

We are in this hobby for some form or another of “active” model railroading.

As for how many people model steam, or why, I don’t believe for one minute all the arm chair phsycology that is dispensed here.

Fact is simple, it is 2017, there is way more railroad history, and way more choices of eras to model than there was in 1968 when I started. And there are likely only a similar number of modelers, regardless of their age or exposure to steam locos. That divides up the era choices into smaller groups, it’s that simple.

I know lots of young people interested in steam, I know 70 year olds who have always modeled “modern” or current their whole lives. Lots of people are interested in history, lots are not. People still re-enact the war of northern aggression, none of them were around to see it?

You are the only person on this thread talking about prices at all, nobody else cares about the price of a Proto steamer or the price of your brass loco, they only care about getting the models they want for their layouts, but I doubt many of them are willing to pay $2000 for a loco.

Sheldon