I’ve often wondered, is there a technically correct name for the steam loco’s that have the cab in the middle of the boiler?
I mean, I’ve been around a little while, and I know that this…
is an early Camelback locomotive. The cab actually rides on top of the boiler and is usually an open air deal. I’ve seen many lithographs of these early loco’s and I know that there were a good number of them in the early-mid 1800’s.
The confusion comes in when we start to look at the later loco’s where the cab sits astride the boiler, like this…
I’ve heard these called Mother Hubbards and I’ve heard them called Camelbacks.
Now I know that it doesn’t make a ton of difference in casual conversation, but technically, what would you say is the actual correct term for these loco’s? And then, where do you know this from? Is it just something you picked up, opinion, or something else?
What is the difference between a Camelback and a Mother Hubbard?
The Wootten boilered “Mother Hubbard” locomotives (often called “Camelbacks” today) should not be confused with the earlier true Camelback locomotives that were developed and built by Ross Winans around 1847 and 1848. The Ross Winans locomotives had the cab located on top of the boiler and burned anthracite coal in narrow fireboxes situated between the driving wheels. These locomotives, were originally called “Camels” and later “Camelbacks”.
The more recent locomotives (since 1877) built with a central cab astride the boiler and with wide Wootten fireboxes situated above the drivers are more accurately called “Mother Hubbards”. However, in later years they were loosely referred to as “Camelbacks” too. Most of the photos and locomotives descrived in these pages are technically “Mother Hubbards”.
From a quick search of the internet, it appears that the term Camelback would only apply to the top picture - where the cab is actually on top of the boiler. The more comon configuration with the cab astride the boiler and the familiar Wooten firebox were called Mother Hubbards, but over time have come to be called camelbacks too.
It is interesting. Wooten, the Philadelphia and Reading Motive Power Chief Engineer, invented the Wooten Firebox to burn anthracite and anthracite tailings, a waste fuel. These were so wide that the cab had to be placed in front of the firebox, in modern steam years special provision was made to put them on the rear end of the firebox. This was also mandated by law in Pennsylvania, maybe even New Jersey right in the late 1930’s when the “camelback” configuration was outlawed. This was delayed until after the war due to power shortage and war traffic. Than it was a mute point as only a few camelback switchers were left and the diesels were taking over.
Reading men called them “camelbacks” and did not use the term “Mother Hubbard” according to well known Reading Company historian Bert Pennypacker. CNJ was owned by Reading in the twenties and thirties and my guess is that they called them “camelbacks” as well. Maybe another forum member knows.
Add to that “end cab” power were called “long Johns” by Reading men.
I have a couple of railroad history books, and in the captions, the older locomotive in your photos was referred to as a “Winan Camel”, from Ross Winan, who was the designer of the locomotive. Hope this doesn’t confuse the issue further.
Now you see why I asked the question! I’ve heard a lot of this before, but I’ve not seen a difinitive answer. Maybe it depends on where you’re from and who you’re talking to as to what you’re talking about?
There were a few different types of Camels built in the 1850s and some in the 1860s. The Davis Camel, 4-6-0, the Hayes Camel, 4-6-0, the Winans Camel 0-8-0 and the Kopper-Winans Camel, 0-8-0 which I believe started out as a 0-10-0. All had the cab astride the boiler. One Winans Camel I know of was rebuilt as a standard rear cab. I believe it was the Highlander, a 0-8-0. The PRR had about six Winans camels and converted them to 2-6-0s.
In later years some people started calling them Camelbacks.
The Camels all had the large firebox between the drivers. All the Camelbacks had the large firebox above and hung over the drivers.
There is a Hayes Camel, #217, l in the B&O museum in Baltimore that was severely damaged when the part of the roundhouse roof collapsed from the weight of snow. I have seen this one called
The Reading and CNJ both referred to the engines with the cabs in the middle of the boilers as “camelbacks”. The engine with the cab on top of the boiler were called camels. The first true “camelback” engine started life as a end cab 4-6-0 P&R engine with a Wooten firebox. The cab was relocated to the center of the boiler to lower it so it would fit tunnel clearances in Italy while on an inspection/sales trip. The trip was unsuccessful, but when the engine returned to the states the P&R realized that it was a way to make a bigger boiler without raising tunnel clearances, so the P&R, its associated roads (CNJ, LV), and other anthracite carriers started making hundreds of camelbacks.
That first drawing looks like the prototype of a Mel Thornburgh model - a B&O locomotive from 1863.[8D]
I was told that the “Mother Hubbard” nickname referred to the wide “skirts” of the Wootten firebox - very unusual in the day when fireboxes had to fit within the locomotive frame.[^]
The major concern with designs that put the engineer above the rods was the high probability that a broken rod would become a large steel club flailing its way through the cab floor right under his seat…[oops]
To clarify a point, camelbacks were never “outlawed” but rather the ICC past a regulation stating that after 1927 no more engines of that configuration could be built because of safety considerations. Those already in-service were not affected by the ruling and many continued in operation for up to another quarter century. The CNJ continued to operate its aging fleet of camelbacks long after the end of WWII, with the last such engine not being retired from passenger service until the mid 1950’s.
More fun fact: There was a safety issue because if the drive rods came undone, the side arm would come slugging straight up through the floorboards and cleave off the unsuspecting trainman like a bug in a flyswatter.
I remember the “camelbacks” running commuter trains in North Jersey in the early/mid '50’s. I was amazed how hot it was standing next to the engine when it stopped to drop off passengers, and looking up at the engineer - mopping his face constantly with a large kerchief - I guessed he was almost about to die up there on top of the boiler!![|(]
Rubbish…“Mother Hubbard” was a nickname for a camelback locomotive. Your regular cab-in-the-middle-of-the-boiler locomotive was known as a camelback locomotive.
It was said that in winter camelback engineers were always scorched on their left sides and frozen on their right! Then too, in summer, the CNJ was famous for some of their long-time camelback engineers who, wearing aviator goggles, would operate the locomotive while seated on the cab window armrest with only their legs actually within the cab! More than a couple lost their grip and met an early demise. In some cases, their absence wasn’t even realized until the fireman noticed they had highballed through a couple of regular station stops! Similar horror stories are associated with fireman attempting to keep their balance and shovel culm while atop the dancing footplate.
